New Pennzoil Platinum 0w20 SN PDS -2012

[buster]

I agree with CATERHAM to a large extent, but I'm not entirely sold on the idea of using an ultra light 0w20 in a high mileage Honda that sees some aggressive driving.

Ideally I would have an OP gauge and monitor the differences.

I will probably switch from MaxLife 5w20 to MaxLife 0w20 next. I will be staying with MaxLife though.

 

[Obos]

There's definitely a psychological issue here as we don't understand the buffer.

When 5w20 was widely introduced, it was the lightest and thinnest, so perceived to be close, maybe too close to the limit.

Now 0w20 is available, 5w20 feels safer. Of course that was what many felt about 5w30 compared to 5w20.

When 0w16 comes out, 0w20 will be the safer choice.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: buster
I agree with CATERHAM to a large extent, but I'm not entirely sold on the idea of using an ultra light 0w20 in a high mileage Honda that sees some aggressive driving.

Ideally I would have an OP gauge and monitor the differences.

I will probably switch from MaxLife 5w20 to MaxLife 0w20 next. I will be staying with MaxLife though.


Ultimately, temperature (and hence pressure) really determine just how suitable it will be. You can always pull oil temps from the sender with a laptop or even your smartphone. I was pretty surprised at just how low oil temps were in my Ford, even being driven hard (mountainous conditions, fully loaded) in very hot external temps. I don't think I ever saw close to 100C at the sender, so using a "thin" 20W gives me no concern at all. If I have a car with a tiny sump and higher temps, that would be a different story.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Obos
Isn't it a simple fact that manufacturers spec oil not oil companies?


The API is made up of people in the lubrication industry, not the automotive manufacturing industry.

 

[edhackett]

The manufacturers are represented within the API. In fact there is quite a split in opinion between the lubrication engineers and the manufactures. SM and SN were manufacturer driven. This info comes from a conversation with our local Shell distributor who attends the API meetings.

Ed

 

[buster]

^ Interesting, but not surprising.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Red Line certainly is with their 0W-30 (183 VI) and 0W-40 (197 VI) both of which have proved to be shear stable.


Since we are certain that Rl is NOT using the new super-duper Asteric-type VIIs, is it reasonable to take for granted that they are adding A LOT of the older style PMA VIIs to their 0W-40 in order to get that high VI number, regardless of just how GREAT the base stock blend may be??

Also, is there a BIG range of quality within those older, less ideal, more shear-prone PMA VIIs (so I can at least hope that RL uses the BEST of them

)?

I have no doubt that RL is using high quality VIIs in their higher VI oils; the results speak for themselves.

Since this thread is about Pennzoil, Shell use their own type of shear stable styrene-isoprene polymers; they're just not going to produce 200+ VI finished oils.

 

[Garak]

Good to know. Now that you mention it, I had heard some of that when we were discussing the SN rollout ages ago. Of course, that certainly doesn't replace the notion of a proprietary spec like dexos1 or the European ones, or even the ACEA.

 

[Obos]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Good to know. Now that you mention it, I had heard some of that when we were discussing the SN rollout ages ago. Of course, that certainly doesn't replace the notion of a proprietary spec like dexos1 or the European ones, or even the ACEA.

Exactly. It is through these proprietary specs that manufacturers are effectively spec'ing oil requirements

Only the Asian manufacturers are largely not coming up with proprietary specs, although they are recommending their OEM high VI oil and Honda has a spec for turbos

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The new Subie engines drink oil?
I know I'd love pouring an expensive 0W-20 in an engine that loved to consume it.
I guess I needn't be jealous of those who have Foresters with the newer engine.

Yep. The rates vary but some are more than the 1 qt per 1,200 now mentioned in the owner's manual. A few people on the Forester board are going through oil consumption "tests". Several posts about consumption also on the BRZ forum, nasioc, subaruoutback.org, and FT-86club.

It could be a new engine issue, and the early Foresters with the FB engine did have a TSB about consumption, IIRC. But I'm surprised to read about it on so many different forums.

Kinda makes me want to buy a BRZ just to test different 0W-20's and 5W-20's. Heavy ones, of course.

-Dennis

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: fdcg27

Yep. The rates vary but some are more than the 1 qt per 1,200 now mentioned in the owner's manual.
Kinda makes me want to buy a BRZ just to test different 0W-20's and 5W-20's. Heavy ones, of course.

The spec' Idemitsu made Subie 0W-20 (169 VI) is not that light of an oil, actually the heaviest of the OEM 0W-20s.
The much lighter TGMO 0W-20 that's spec'd for the Toyota version of the BRZ, the FR-S, would (should) have even higher consumption.
If I owned the car and experienced high oil consumption I'd stick with the TGMO 0W-20 but top up with M1 0W-40. This gives the advantage of increasing the HTHSV of the oil while retaining a very high VI. In otherwords your primarily increasing the viscosity of the oil when hot, not so much when it's cold, something going to a heavier low VI 0W/5W-20 oil won't accomplish.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Obos
Only the Asian manufacturers are largely not coming up with proprietary specs, although they are recommending their OEM high VI oil and Honda has a spec for turbos


True. The only one I can think that's actually a discrete specification would be the Honda turbo one. I do know that some manuals for Japanese diesels are also oddly picky about which oil to use.

Still, if the manufacturers are so concerned about VI, then come up with a spec. Otherwise, if someone wants to use PP, there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Blue_Goose]

The M1 0W20 AFE is towards the heavier end of the 0W20's no?


Goose

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Blue_Goose
The M1 0W20 AFE is towards the heavier end of the 0W20's no?


Goose


I'd say somewhere in the middle. Amsoil SS and Redline would be toward the "heavier" end of the 0W20's. JMO

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
No oil company was implicated in the Toyota, VW, Saab, Chrysler sludged engines from 1996-2004. All those manufacturers except Chrysler ended up giving extended warranties

Thats right thanks for making my point! No oil company was involved, it was the manufactures engineers that dropped the ball.
Ok Mark, Mori, Obos or whatever your handle is this week time to stop playing games, your too transparent.



I think you're onto something Trav. Welcome back Mark.

Anon proxy anyone?

Yep Proxy software or a new isp.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: fdcg27

Yep. The rates vary but some are more than the 1 qt per 1,200 now mentioned in the owner's manual.
Kinda makes me want to buy a BRZ just to test different 0W-20's and 5W-20's. Heavy ones, of course.

The spec' Idemitsu made Subie 0W-20 (169 VI) is not that light of an oil, actually the heaviest of the OEM 0W-20s.
The much lighter TGMO 0W-20 that's spec'd for the Toyota version of the BRZ, the FR-S, would (should) have even higher consumption.
If I owned the car and experienced high oil consumption I'd stick with the TGMO 0W-20 but top up with M1 0W-40. This gives the advantage of increasing the HTHSV of the oil while retaining a very high VI. In otherwords your primarily increasing the viscosity of the oil when hot, not so much when it's cold, something going to a heavier low VI 0W/5W-20 oil won't accomplish.


But would the M1 0W-40 still keep them within the warranty??

Because if not anyway, the RL 0W-40 would keep the VI even higher yet, and I believe it also has an equal or maybe even lower NOACK than the M1 (or am I incorrect about that?

), while only "giving up" .2 HTHSV to said M1.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver


But would the M1 0W-40 still keep them within the warranty??



I was thinking the exact same thing. The answer is maybe. Would you want to chance it? That's the real question. I know oil related issues are rare, and the mfg would have to prove the oil caused the problem. Or maybe the car owner would have to prove the oil didn't cause the problem, while he waits w/o a car. We've heard all that before. Besides if the oil needs to be "thicker", why not use "thicker" oil? There are plenty of choices in the 20 grade line up. JMO

Now if there is no warranty involved, go for it.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
I know oil related issues are rare, and the mfg would have to prove the oil caused the problem. Or maybe the car owner would have to prove the oil didn't cause the problem, while he waits w/o a car

That's the whole point IT DOES have oil problems already, the guy cant keep it from blowing oil all over the guys windshield behind him.

Seriously if you have a new engine that going though oil like its owned by an Arab Sheik after break in you have a problem and need to get it seen to under warranty.
A good modern engine shouldn't be using that amount of oil and sitting there in the cellar playing mixologist isn't the answer.

 

[buster]

What about the fact that Honda etc. consider 1qt per 1,000 miles acceptable Trav?

I always thought that was odd. Also, do you think breaking in the engine hard is better?

 

[Trav]

Yeah i know GM said the same when some N* burned oil like mad.
I don't know but it seems like any time there is a problem that wont grenade the motor it all of a sudden becomes "normal".
If they admit a qt every 1K is not normal they may get flooded with engine replacements.

Ford replaced a lot of Modulars for piston slap but when it became overwhelming they stopped and came out with this is "normal".
I don't know about you but for me 1qt every 1K is not "normal" by any stretch of the imagination its a true oil burner.
Personally i have never owned an engine that needed much oil in 1K of normal driving if it did i fixed it.

IMO Ring loading is important for proper break in. While i don't beat the engine like a red headed step child i do load the engine heavy albeit not very high RPM's (redline) when its new.
We have a lot of long very steep hills here so that's perfect for ring loading.