New LT1 for 2014 Corvette

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
The next announcement will be for the LT4 and it will be supercharged .


Yeah baby. It will be a MONSTER.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
The GTR quite frankly is a moonshot compared to this thing, and its a shame really.


Maybe so, but it is also an overweight piggy, and the epitome of the 'nanny-mobile', besides (depending on one's viewpoints) being ugly as sin to some (but STILL better looking than your sacred Veyron to my eyes

).

Just remember, if Renault did not come along and rescue them(Datsun), your technological 'wonder/miracle' would not have been possible either.

The GTR is one electro-nanny system away from making the "driver" into nothing more than a passenger that sits behind the wheel.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
The GTR quite frankly is a moonshot compared to this thing, and its a shame really.


Maybe so, but it is also an overweight piggy, and the epitome of the 'nanny-mobile', besides (depending on one's viewpoints) being ugly as sin to some (but STILL better looking than your sacred Veyron to my eyes

).

Just remember, if Renault did not come along and rescue them(Datsun), your technological 'wonder/miracle' would not have been possible either.

I have quite a bit of seat time in one at an HPDE. While an impressive performer, it's almost 'video game like' in its driving experience. Plus it does NOT make good sounds!

Not a car I would even consider, no character at all.

 

[greenjp]

I think there's some confusion as to what qualifies as "technology". The OHV architecture of the GM V8s may be "old", but make no mistake, the technology is not. I'm sure the metallurgy, CFD, etc that goes into making them is second to none.

Further, checklists of "features" do not make something high-tech. Just more parts, cost, and complexity. Truly good design is also elegant in its simplicity.

jeff

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman


No, I don't know what the BSFC is for either engine at any of the hundreds of operating points that are on a modern engine map. We're talking in general trends here.

The total load on the cam is about the same because there are twice as many valves and springs in the DOHC engine as there are in the OHV. The trouble is, a DOHC V8 has 4 times as many cam bearings as an OHV V8, and about 10 feet of cam chain instead of 2. More parts rubbing together, more friction.

Name an engine where the size of the bore doesn't limit the size of the valves. Pushrod or not, a 2-valve wedge combustion chamber does not allow for as much valve area as a 4-valve combustion chamber. The 4.6 Ford modular 2-valve had small valves, and it never made the same specific output numbers in production form as GM's pushrod engines.


You aren't following me

That's exactly my point. That on a given bore size, if you have a 4-valve head, it has the potential for more valve area. So on an engine with a reduced bore size (like the 305 or the Modular) the potential for greater power output is going to be in the hands of the engine that can move the most air... .basic operating principle here. And that engine is going to be the one with the most valve area, all things equal. Which means that if we take a pushrod engine like the 305 and compare it to Coyote, as they have similar bore sizes, well, we both know which engine will make the most power across the board.

With the pushrod engine you are generally (yes, I know there have been exceptions in the past) constrained to 2 valves per cylinder. And the size of those valves is directly related to bore size.

However, if you look at the modular, yes, they had a 2 valve version. But they also had a 4-valve version that made significantly more power, and the latest evolution of that philosophy is Coyote, which still has a small bore (relatively speaking). That is not something you can do (easily... or it would be popular) with a pushrod engine. Limiting bore size for emissions whilst increasing valve area through simply having more of them.

And this is where your argument about GM putting money into combustion chamber tech comes into play. It isn't for power output, but rather for emissions.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
The GTR quite frankly is a moonshot compared to this thing, and its a shame really.


Maybe so, but it is also an overweight piggy, and the epitome of the 'nanny-mobile', besides (depending on one's viewpoints) being ugly as sin to some (but STILL better looking than your sacred Veyron to my eyes

).

Just remember, if Renault did not come along and rescue them(Datsun), your technological 'wonder/miracle' would not have been possible either.

I have quite a bit of seat time in one at an HPDE. While an impressive performer, it's almost 'video game like' in its driving experience. Plus it does NOT make good sounds!

Not a car I would even consider, no character at all.



You summed it all up in one word: "character"...and this sells Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, Harleys etc...the Japanese just don't have it. Plus, all the bickering about the Corvette falls on my deaf ears...the car is a bargain and does what it is built for very well.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
The GTR quite frankly is a moonshot compared to this thing, and its a shame really.


Maybe so, but it is also an overweight piggy, and the epitome of the 'nanny-mobile', besides (depending on one's viewpoints) being ugly as sin to some (but STILL better looking than your sacred Veyron to my eyes

).

Just remember, if Renault did not come along and rescue them(Datsun), your technological 'wonder/miracle' would not have been possible either.

I have quite a bit of seat time in one at an HPDE. While an impressive performer, it's almost 'video game like' in its driving experience. Plus it does NOT make good sounds!

Not a car I would even consider, no character at all.



You summed it all up in one word: "character"...and this sells Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, Harleys etc...the Japanese just don't have it. Plus, all the bickering about the Corvette falls on my deaf ears...the car is a bargain and does what it is built for very well.

Yes, and someone should explain the bolded above to some of those in the other thread about this engine/car in the "Automotive General Topics" forum, since they cannot quite grasp the concept.

 

[ls1mike]

Why does anyone argue with the GM bashers on here? It is lost cause.
For what you get and what you pay, The Corvette cannot be beat.

 

[Mr Nice]

I wish Corvettes had the quality of a BMW or Benz...

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
6.2L is a massive engine.

Quite frankly I'd expect more NA ponies out of it, at least 500-525, and the red line is low, very low.



Peak HP is almost meaningless. Area under the curve, of which, the new LT1 and the LSx motors have a ton, is what moves metal (or fiberglass). That's why those old pushrod GM motors are such beasts and outperform many newer technology engines. Plus, with variable cam timing, they'll have even more torque at lower rpms. 0 to 60 in under 4 seconds for a base Corvette is pretty darn impressive IMO. This is the new base engine for the Vette, not the flagship.

"The LT1 engine has 50 lb-ft more torque at low rpm than the current engine, which delivers more pulling power."



The new Audi S8 which is a 4,600 sedan does 0-60 in about three and a half seconds, stock.

Every modern V8 or V12 unless you get into some exotic NA Italian stuff pulls like a freight train off idle. The advantage push rods used to offer is long gone.

Push rod motors are great in marine and truck applications though because they can slug along at 70% load for years on end without complaint.


I have no clue where you got 3.5 seconds 0 to 60 from for the new S8.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-car-buying/audi/s8/

This is a base Corvette we're talking about, not even a ZR1 or the new LT4.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
I wish Corvettes had the quality of a BMW or Benz...




My brother owns an S500.

Given his ownership experience, a Benz would be the absolute last vehicle I'd ever own. It's a great car; feels like you're standing still at 130mph, but when it breaks, and it often does, it's the most PITA car to deal with.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: greenjp
Further, checklists of "features" do not make something high-tech. Just more parts, cost, and complexity. Truly good design is also elegant in its simplicity.
jeff


Excellent! Really hit the nail on the head.

"Bells and whistles" make great marketing.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
I wish Corvettes had the quality of a BMW or Benz...




My brother owns an S500.

Given his ownership experience, a Benz would be the absolute last vehicle I'd ever own. It's a great car; feels like you're standing still at 130mph, but when it breaks, and it often does, it's the most PITA car to deal with.


I had 3 and I'm in complete agreement. Loved each one but very vexing ownership experience.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Yea a dohc motor has chains but I believe they have less rotational friction as a whole vs a pushrod engine that can spin at the same rpms.
I could be wrong as I'm not really comparing apples to apples.
I wonder if one of our smarter members may know a formula to calculate the rotational friction between the 2.


I am proud to find out that I am one of BITOG's smarter members, then, because in my job as an engineer in advanced valvetrain development, I have previously (about 3 years ago) calculated cam loads for both the Ford Coyote and the GM LS-series of engines. I can confirm that the peak cam load for two intake valves being lifted simultaneously in the Coyote at 7000 rpm is ~10% higher than for one intake valve in the GM LS at 6000 rpm. These numbers may have drifted up or down in the last few years, but there is no night-and-day difference between the two, when all of the variables are considered in arriving at a final answer.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Why does anyone argue with the GM bashers on here? It is lost cause.
For what you get and what you pay, The Corvette cannot be beat.


Yes, I agree, and I do realise that it is FUTILE on here, but this ONE import nameplate ONLY loving member always chimes in to attack me, even when I did not direct ANYTHING venomous at him personally.

 

[Cujet]

I'd guess that direct injection (I have love/hate feelings on it) is worth some HP, and 10% better MPG.

As far as engine architecture goes, a pushrod V8 is nearly unbeatable. As mentioned above, it's compact, powerful, lightweight and smooth. GM has done an incredible job making it efficient too. There is a reason people love 'em. They simply work well.

I drove a centrifugally supercharged Corvette Grand Sport with 670+ HP. It was well set up and properly modified. Revved well over 7000RPM, and was an absolute blast to drive. In this case, more power was unnecessary. It spun the street legal race tires with ease at any legal speed, perfect.

How are we going to accomplish this with the new engine? It will cost a fortune, that's for sure. And, for that reason alone, I'm not convinced I like it.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
I'd guess that direct injection (I have love/hate feelings on it) is worth some HP, and 10% better MPG.

As far as engine architecture goes, a pushrod V8 is nearly unbeatable. As mentioned above, it's compact, powerful, lightweight and smooth. GM has done an incredible job making it efficient too. There is a reason people love 'em. They simply work well.

I drove a centrifugally supercharged Corvette Grand Sport with 670+ HP. It was well set up and properly modified. Revved well over 7000RPM, and was an absolute blast to drive. In this case, more power was unnecessary. It spun the street legal race tires with ease at any legal speed, perfect.

How are we going to accomplish this with the new engine? It will cost a fortune, that's for sure. And, for that reason alone, I'm not convinced I like it.

I am not sure I follow you. Why couldn't you?

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
I'd guess that direct injection (I have love/hate feelings on it) is worth some HP, and 10% better MPG.

As far as engine architecture goes, a pushrod V8 is nearly unbeatable. As mentioned above, it's compact, powerful, lightweight and smooth. GM has done an incredible job making it efficient too. There is a reason people love 'em. They simply work well.

I drove a centrifugally supercharged Corvette Grand Sport with 670+ HP. It was well set up and properly modified. Revved well over 7000RPM, and was an absolute blast to drive. In this case, more power was unnecessary. It spun the street legal race tires with ease at any legal speed, perfect.

How are we going to accomplish this with the new engine? It will cost a fortune, that's for sure. And, for that reason alone, I'm not convinced I like it.



Odds are this engine will tolerate 6-8 psi with nothing more than a tune. A good exhaust system and you're at 600+ crank hp easy.

We just have to wait until the aftermarket gets the software developed for the CMR boys.

GM is not having many DI issues other than fuel dilution. Some mfgrs have worked it out already.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike

I am not sure I follow you. Why couldn't you?


Just guessing here, but direct injection is generally unable to achieve high RPM's. And, as we all know, RPM=HP in many cases.

I have no idea how much headroom the injectors have and if they can support more HP at all. My guess (and that's all it is) is that larger injectors will be necessary for significant HP increases. And, guessing that will be exceedingly expensive. Direct injectors ain't cheap. And, I'm not at all sure there are larger capacity ones available.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
I wish Corvettes had the quality of a BMW or Benz...




But then they would have to raise the price tag an extra $5000 or $10,000. I'd rather put up with it being not quite as "fancy" and perhaps use lesser quality interior parts or not be perfect in terms of fit and finish, as long as they continue the trend of offering a very well performing car for a very reasonable price.