New flavors of Castrol 5w30 and 5w40 found at my local Walmart

[BurntMusic]

I went to Walmart about two weeks ago and saw a new lineup of motor oils, specifically from Castrol. Looks like they've refreshed some of their labels.

Just thought I would share

 

[aquariuscsm]

Is that API SL old stock?

 

[BurntMusic]

Is that API SL old stock?

To be honest, I have no idea. The walmart I always go to is the one I took these pictures at. I go there about once a month and peruse the oil aisle. This is my first time seeing it there so its been there for at least a month or two.

 

[edyvw]

It

To be honest, I have no idea. The walmart I always go to is the one I took these pictures at. I go there about once a month and peruse the oil aisle. This is my first time seeing it there so its been there for at least a month or two.

5W40 is new version, available in some Wal Marts for last 2-3 months.
5W30 has been available since last summer in certain locations.

 

[SR5]

Is that API SL old stock?

No it’s new, and the good stuff, Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4 with the Euro OEMs BMW LL-01 and MB 229.5

Under API SN and above, there are chemical limits placed on Phosphorus for the ILSAC viscosity grades (eg 0W20, 5W30). The 40 grades and thicker have higher Phos limits. Most Phos enters the oil as the anti-wear agent ZDDP which also carries the zinc.

For ILSAC viscosity grades, Phos should be between 600 to 800 ppm, with the corresponding zinc being about 50 to 100 ppm higher.

However Euro OEM oils need to pass higher wear tests, which means they carry more ZDDP, which usually translates to about 1000 ppm Phos and about 1100 ppm Zinc. This is above the chemical limits applied to a 5W30 hence its now API SL, however the exact same amount of ZDDP in a 0W40 or 5W40 oil allows it to be labeled API SN because this viscosity grade has a different limit.

Rest assured that Edge 5W30 A3/B4 is SN in quality and ability, but due to the API rules its got to be labeled SL, while the equivalent 5W40 can claim SN.

BTW Edge 5W30 A3/B4 has a HTHS of 3.6 cP, the exact same HTHS of M1 0W40.

 

[edyvw]

No it’s new, and the good stuff, Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4 with the Euro OEMs BMW LL-01 and MB 229.5

Under API SN and above, there are chemical limits placed on Phosphorus for the ILSAC viscosity grades (eg 0W20, 5W30). The 40 grades and thicker have higher Phos limits. Most Phos enters the oil as the anti-wear agent ZDDP which also carries the zinc.

For ILSAC viscosity grades, Phos should be between 600 to 800 ppm, with the corresponding zinc being about 50 to 100 ppm higher.

However Euro OEM oils need to pass higher wear tests, which means they carry more ZDDP, which usually translates to about 1000 ppm Phos and about 1100 ppm Zinc. This is above the chemical limits applied to a 5W30 hence its now API SL, however the exact same amount of ZDDP in a 0W40 or 5W40 oil allows it to be labeled API SN because this viscosity grade has a different limit.

Rest assured that Edge 5W30 A3/B4 is SN in quality and ability, but due to the API rules its got to be labeled SL, while the equivalent 5W40 can claim SN.

BTW Edge 5W30 A3/B4 has a HTHS of 3.6 cP, the exact same HTHS of M1 0W40.

Where did you dig out this?

 

[Propflux01]

Guess that makes it a cat converter killer?

 

[SR5]

Where did you dig out this?

Shannow here first told me about it a few years ago. It’s also mentioned here:
”This update meant that International Lubricant Specification Advisory Committee (ILSAC) performance standards, or XW-30 categories, requesting both a C category and an S category needed to adhere to the 800 parts per million (ppm) phosphorus limit. Despite this update, a waiver for XW-40 or “non-ILSAC” oils was maintained.”

Exemption for phosphorus limits will no longer apply from May 2020 - F&L Asia

For some time, automobile manufacturers have been concerned that high phosphorus levels may negatively affect engine performance. As early as 1977, an SAE technical paper entitled “Engine Oil Phosphorus Effects […]

www.fuelsandlubes.com

But reading the article, the waiver for non-ILSAC grades no longer applies to API SP.
So M1 or Edge 0W40 with about 1000 ppm Zinc, can claim SN, but not SP.
Edge 5W30 A3/B4 can claim SL but not SN or SP.

Looks like a reformulation will probably happen at some time.

 

[SR5]

Guess that makes it a cat converter killer?

Yeah but Euro cars have been running this level of ZDDP for decades with exhaust cats without much concern.

 

[edyvw]

Shannow here first told me about it a few years ago. It’s also mentioned here:
”This update meant that International Lubricant Specification Advisory Committee (ILSAC) performance standards, or XW-30 categories, requesting both a C category and an S category needed to adhere to the 800 parts per million (ppm) phosphorus limit. Despite this update, a waiver for XW-40 or “non-ILSAC” oils was maintained.”

Exemption for phosphorus limits will no longer apply from May 2020 - F&L Asia

For some time, automobile manufacturers have been concerned that high phosphorus levels may negatively affect engine performance. As early as 1977, an SAE technical paper entitled “Engine Oil Phosphorus Effects […]

www.fuelsandlubes.com

But reading the article, the waiver for non-ILSAC grades no longer applies to API SP.
So M1 or Edge 0W40 with about 1000 ppm Zinc, can claim SN, but not SP.
Edge 5W30 A3/B4 can claim SL but not SN or SP.

Looks like a reformulation will probably happen at some time.

I know that. I bolded HTHS. You said Castrol Edge has HTHS of 3.6. Where did you get that info?

 

[edyvw]

Yeah but Euro cars have been running this level of ZDDP for decades with exhaust cats without much concern.

The limit is 1,100. Don’t forget that Euro gassers are running since 2009 on C3 oils except in markets with high sulfur levels.

 

[Snagglefoot]

No it’s new, and the good stuff, Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4 with the Euro OEMs BMW LL-01 and MB 229.5

Under API SN and above, there are chemical limits placed on Phosphorus for the ILSAC viscosity grades (eg 0W20, 5W30). The 40 grades and thicker have higher Phos limits. Most Phos enters the oil as the anti-wear agent ZDDP which also carries the zinc.

For ILSAC viscosity grades, Phos should be between 600 to 800 ppm, with the corresponding zinc being about 50 to 100 ppm higher.

However Euro OEM oils need to pass higher wear tests, which means they carry more ZDDP, which usually translates to about 1000 ppm Phos and about 1100 ppm Zinc. This is above the chemical limits applied to a 5W30 hence its now API SL, however the exact same amount of ZDDP in a 0W40 or 5W40 oil allows it to be labeled API SN because this viscosity grade has a different limit.

Rest assured that Edge 5W30 A3/B4 is SN in quality and ability, but due to the API rules its got to be labeled SL, while the equivalent 5W40 can claim SN.

BTW Edge 5W30 A3/B4 has a HTHS of 3.6 cP, the exact same HTHS of M1 0W40.

All good, but come May 1, SN will be obsolete and the API will not be giving out an SP rating for those high phosphorus 40 grades. The API is still concerned that phosphorus levels above 800 ppm is lowering the performance of cats.

 

[edyvw]

All good, but come May 1, SN will be obsolete and the API will not be giving out an SP rating for those high phosphorus 40 grades. The API is still concerned that phosphorus levels above 800 ppm is lowering the performance of cats.

I am not sure European oil blenders care about API. They are selling oils with API SL, what makes you think they won’t sell oils with API SN? Only thing that matters are manufacturers approvals.

 

[Snagglefoot]

I am not sure European oil blenders care about API. They are selling oils with API SL, what makes you think they won’t sell oils with API SN? Only thing that matters are manufacturers approvals.

Let’s regroup when the new 40 grades hit the shelves after everything is cleared out in May. I’m betting they will still be SL. But no big deal. I’m running Euros as well.

 

[edyvw]

Let’s regroup when the new 40 grades hit the shelves after everything is cleared out in May. I’m betting they will still be SL. But no big deal. I’m running Euros as well.

New 40 grades are hitting all the time. Castrol jus introduced new 5W40 as well as Motul. Don’t expect anything new from them in next 3-5 years. Manufacturers are aware of new API requirements years in advance. If you think they will change composition of oil bcs. API, you are giving API too much importance.

 

[Snagglefoot]

New 40 grades are hitting all the time. Castrol jus introduced new 5W40 as well as Motul. Don’t expect anything new from them in next 3-5 years. If you think they will change composition of oil bcs. API, you are giving API too much importance.

Misunderstanding here. I’m not suggesting they’ll change the recipe. I’m saying those high phosphorus content 40 grades that used to get an SN rating, will not get an SP rating. I’m giving the American Petroleum Institute too much importance?

 

[rummy]

Guess that makes it a cat converter killer?

of your vehicle burns a ton of oil, yes.

if it doesn't, then, no.

 

[Propflux01]

No burning, just a 2.4L NA oil choice to try.

 

[edyvw]

Misunderstanding here. I’m not suggesting they’ll change the recipe. I’m saying those high phosphorus content 40 grades that used to get an SN rating, will not get an SP rating. I’m giving the American Petroleum Institute too much importance?

OK, I thought you argued they will introduce new oils. Certain oil flavours will stay forever API SN. Pennzoil though, already had very low ZDDP content, therefore they are already SP.

 

[SR5]

I know that. I bolded HTHS. You said Castrol Edge has HTHS of 3.6. Where did you get that info?

Sorry my mistake, the HTHS for the 5W30 A3/B4 came from a Castrol PDS data sheet. I’ll see if I can dig it out.