New Consumer Reports Wax Rating

[W8inDE]

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Originally posted by bretfraz:

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Originally posted by W8inDE:

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Originally posted by methusaleh:
So...

Where in CR's ratings did Zaino and Collinite place??

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They probably didn't test them. Besides, CRs results are worthless.

This should enlighten you. Here's a thread on the same subject, being discussed by detailing enthusiasts and professional detailers:
http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=72194&page=1&pp=12

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That thread is a great example of what a train wreck Autopia has become. And it used to be a wonderful place......

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Train wreck? It's a valuable detailing resource. Not sure how you categorizes opinions from pro detailers and enthusiasts as a train wreck. Of course, the advice on here to use Nu Finish is top notch. Especially using multiple layers of a cleaner/sealant

That's like autopia referring to a BITOG oil thread as a train wreck, then saying what a wonderful place it use to be.

[ June 05, 2006, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: W8inDE ]

 

[txmatt]

Most of these folks bashing CR results are members of the various wax cults who go off on weekend retreats to remote locations to multi-step-wax their vehicles while other devotees chant and dance around the sacrificial vehicles. I should know because I was once lured by the Zymol and Zaino and P21 drumbeat, spending 5x the necessary dollars and doing 3x the work for 10% better results. I have since reformed.

CR tests products for 90% of the population that uses a product as a tool for it's intended purpose. If you're looking for spiritual enlightenment from your car wax or car or slacks or wine, read Autpoia or Hemmings Motor News or Sommelier Today or something. For most folks, CR's highly rated products do a good job for their intended purpose. Does it mean there aren't better products out there? Of course not.

 

[jsharp]

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Originally posted by Colt:

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Originally posted by GT Mike:
Actually, you only had one coat of Nu-Finish on your car. The new coat self-cleans thru the old stuff. It doesn't build up like Liquid Glass or Zaino or a similar product does.

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True.
You can't layer cleaner waxes/protectants.

"Some of these products contain abrasives (NuFinish for example) and cannot be layered. Klasse and Zaino are products that can be layered, which is part of their appeal, creating added durability and great shine/reflection. Perhaps their best virtue is their high melting point, above 392 degrees. Your existing wax MUST be stripped off the car before you use a polymer sealant, or it WILL NOT bond. Kind of like applying a band-aid to a finger that has moisturizer on it or is wet"

http://www.fastlouis.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1839

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Wood is a polymer? I've not heard that one.

The Nu Finish bottle states that you should apply a second coat withing 30 days for best results. It's possible that they just want to sell more product, but it infers that it does in fact layer to some degree. I also question how abrasive it is since I've used it for years and haven't noticed this.

Call me a doubter, but I'm hesitant to buy into posts on cars boards that are simply cut and paste text from unattributed sources...

 

[fitz47]

http://www.properautocare.com/

 

[bretfraz]

quote:

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Originally posted by jsharp:

The Nu Finish bottle states that you should apply a second coat withing 30 days for best results. It's possible that they just want to sell more product, but it infers that it does in fact layer to some degree. I also question how abrasive it is since I've used it for years and haven't noticed this.

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The chemical cleaners in NuFinish will strip most, if not all, of the previous coat off when applying coat #2. Any abrasives in the product will do the same thing.

How does Nufinish restore the paint of old junkyard cars without abrasives or some kind of polishing action?

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by bretfraz:

quote:

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Originally posted by jsharp:

The Nu Finish bottle states that you should apply a second coat withing 30 days for best results. It's possible that they just want to sell more product, but it infers that it does in fact layer to some degree. I also question how abrasive it is since I've used it for years and haven't noticed this.

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The chemical cleaners in NuFinish will strip most, if not all, of the previous coat off when applying coat #2. Any abrasives in the product will do the same thing.

How does Nufinish restore the paint of old junkyard cars without abrasives or some kind of polishing action?

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Any number of solvents will remove oxidized paint, tar, bugs, etc., with no abrasives at all. There's no doubt from the odor of Nu Finish it contains some solvents.

Any number of fine abrasives will also remove those things above but leave paint that's in good condition totally unaffected depending on the composition and size of the abrasives.

I don't question that cleaner waxes like Nu Finish have *some* abrasives. The question is, are they large enough, hard enough, and concentrated enough to abrade and damage fully cured modern paint finishes? My experience with the product so far says no.

I also find it interesting that many say Nu Finish won't layer yet other more expensive polymer cleaner/waxes make the claim that they will, just like the claims made by Nu Finish. No one seems to question them.

Personally, I think people are down on Nu Finish for the reasons stated by txmatt. It's not expensive enough nor rare enough for people to believe it's any good. I consider it much like those who spend $1000's on hi-fi speaker cables and claim they sound different than $15 worth of 12 gauge zip cord...

 

[Smitty]

Thank You jsharp

 

[Colt]

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Originally posted by jsharp:

I also find it interesting that many say Nu Finish won't layer yet other more expensive polymer cleaner/waxes make the claim that they will, just like the claims made by Nu Finish. No one seems to question them.

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Slick 50,Prolong,auto informercials etc state things that aren't true too.
No one step cleaner wax or sealant can be layered.
The products clean oxidized paint and stain.
How can the product layer?

 

[W8inDE]

quote:

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Originally posted by txmatt:
Most of these folks bashing CR results are members of the various wax cults who go off on weekend retreats to remote locations to multi-step-wax their vehicles while other devotees chant and dance around the sacrificial vehicles. I should know because I was once lured by the Zymol and Zaino and P21 drumbeat, spending 5x the necessary dollars and doing 3x the work for 10% better results. I have since reformed.

CR tests products for 90% of the population that uses a product as a tool for it's intended purpose. If you're looking for spiritual enlightenment from your car wax or car or slacks or wine, read Autpoia or Hemmings Motor News or Sommelier Today or something. For most folks, CR's highly rated products do a good job for their intended purpose. Does it mean there aren't better products out there? Of course not.

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Well put

But I beg to differ on the weekend retreats comment. I go under the I95 overpass down by the river

Shade all day long. Plus it's too far for my wife to walk to and start bitching at me

 

[bretfraz]

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Originally posted by jsharp:


I also find it interesting that many say Nu Finish won't layer yet other more expensive polymer cleaner/waxes make the claim that they will, just like the claims made by Nu Finish. No one seems to question them.

Personally, I think people are down on Nu Finish for the reasons stated by txmatt. It's not expensive enough nor rare enough for people to believe it's any good. I consider it much like those who spend $1000's on hi-fi speaker cables and claim they sound different than $15 worth of 12 gauge zip cord...

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It's hard to comment about the other polymer prodcts you refer to unless they're named, but my guess is the other products are not solvent-based like NuFinish is or they do not use less refined aromatic solvents like many think NuFinish contains.

Popular synthetics like Meguiar's NXT and Mothers FX Synwax have pretty low solvent amount, less than 15%. I don't know the solvent content of NuFinish because Reed-Union will not send me a MSDS so my judgement is based on experience and general product knowledge.

I agree there is a snob factor with the car wax crowd, like there is with so many other consumer products. Regardless, I don't see the benefit in using a product with an apparent high solvent content and a certain amount of abrasives when there are other very low-solvent, non-abrasive, more advanced products available.

I say, buy and use what you like.

 

[W8inDE]

Perhaps he is confused as to the different product lines and which ones are layered. For example, only one coat of Klasse AIO. Anymore will just wipe off the previous coat because it has chemical cleaners. However, the Klasse SG can be applied multiple times because it is a 100% polymer acrylic sealant...NO CLEANERS!

Many of the high end polymer sealants have similar combos. The cleaner first and only one time, then the sealant 2+ coats.

 

[johnd]

The Problem with Consumer Reports is the same one that they have always had. The go for the middle and evaluate 3-4 things that they figure the average person might use. I don't think that I have ever seen them do anything that actually included a product in which I was interested.

 

[drewjp]

I posted a similar thread over at Autopia.org...

CR is written for people who probably only wax once/year and only use all-in-one products that they can easily find and are cheap.

That being said, Zaino's the most durable sealant I've used, and am still using it with awesome results.

Other good wax/protectants are Klasse AIO/SG, Collinite, Meguiar's #16, P21s/s100, Fk1 Pink Wax, Natty's Blue, Souveran, Mezerna FMJ.

Those are the only ones I've used so far, and love....

Do a clay treatment, then glaze/polish, then topcoat of wax/sealant. And wash by hand regularly.

 

[txmatt]

As a follow-up to my previous sarcasm...

Some of the higher-end waxes have qualities that are great for some people but not convenient for the masses. For example, when I used Zaino on my white Miata, it had no cleaning ability at all. Even with it Zaino'd, any stains that made it to the paint required a cleaner be used and then the Zaino steps repeated. The cost, this additional work, no visible difference on a white car, and not a dramatic durability difference that I encountered (I wax every few months anyway) turned me away from Zaino. For this reason I'm not sure Zaino would even do well in a CR review. While it might excel in Durability and Gloss, it would get dinged in Cost and Ease of Use.

Since then I've tried a couple different off-the-shelf waxes (Meguiars NXT, Armor All, Rain-X, ...) and they work okay. I find I much prefer the 1-step waxes and enjoy being able to do a quickie wax job in 30 minutes or so with a Porter Cable polisher.

It's anlagous to my photography experience. I own a Nikon 35mm SLR with a decent 2.8 zoom lens and have owned a number of 35mm and digital point and shoots. I haven't used the Nikon in years. The size and weight aren't worth (to me) lugging around while hiking and travelling when the latest digital point and shoots are capable of making excellent prints at 4x6 and 5x7 (and bigger) with no need for film.

 

[VNT]

Exactly, the fish wrap is too lazy to test that stuff because they dont get a kick back

to me anything I can order is readily available, dont need to see it at Walmart or Autozone.

quote:

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Originally posted by methusaleh:
So...

Where in CR's ratings did Zaino and Collinite place??

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[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by Colt:

quote:

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Originally posted by jsharp:

I also find it interesting that many say Nu Finish won't layer yet other more expensive polymer cleaner/waxes make the claim that they will, just like the claims made by Nu Finish. No one seems to question them.

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Slick 50,Prolong,auto informercials etc state things that aren't true too.
No one step cleaner wax or sealant can be layered.
The products clean oxidized paint and stain.
How can the product layer?

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You're assuming when you apply a second coat that it strips the first coat completely. My point was, I haven't found that to be true. Now I suppose if I applied enough and worked it enough it might be true. But I don't. When the vehicle is already clean and with a coat of wax in place what would be the need?

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by bretfraz:

quote:

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Originally posted by jsharp:


I also find it interesting that many say Nu Finish won't layer yet other more expensive polymer cleaner/waxes make the claim that they will, just like the claims made by Nu Finish. No one seems to question them.

Personally, I think people are down on Nu Finish for the reasons stated by txmatt. It's not expensive enough nor rare enough for people to believe it's any good. I consider it much like those who spend $1000's on hi-fi speaker cables and claim they sound different than $15 worth of 12 gauge zip cord...

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It's hard to comment about the other polymer prodcts you refer to unless they're named, but my guess is the other products are not solvent-based like NuFinish is or they do not use less refined aromatic solvents like many think NuFinish contains.

Popular synthetics like Meguiar's NXT and Mothers FX Synwax have pretty low solvent amount, less than 15%. I don't know the solvent content of NuFinish because Reed-Union will not send me a MSDS so my judgement is based on experience and general product knowledge.

I agree there is a snob factor with the car wax crowd, like there is with so many other consumer products. Regardless, I don't see the benefit in using a product with an apparent high solvent content and a certain amount of abrasives when there are other very low-solvent, non-abrasive, more advanced products available.

I say, buy and use what you like.

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NXT was one I was thinking of in particular. 2 coats of it applied back to back within a couple days gives a good looking finish, but lasts all of 3 weeks in the Illinois summer sun. I consider it one of the most overpriced and overhyped products I've ever purchased.

Nu Finish isn't perfect, particularly the low gloss it provides. But the cost is low and I've gotten good durability from it with no apparent damage to the finishes where I've used it.

My 6 yo 4Runner sits outside every day and gets washed a lot in the winter to remove the salt that Illinois uses by the train car load. It's had 2 double coats of Nu Finish every year for the 4 years I've owned it and I've gotten quite a few comments about how good the paint still looks. That's anecdotal evident that Nu Finish isn't causing too much damage anyway. But, it's white and a Toyota so those are both factors too.

I suppose I agree, use what works for you. My point was that I don't believe a product needs to cost $50 and be a multi step process that has to be appled during the right phase of the moon to be usable and effective...

 

[Patman]

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NXT was one I was thinking of in particular. 2 coats of it applied back to back within a couple days gives a good looking finish, but lasts all of 3 weeks in the Illinois summer sun. I consider it one of the most overpriced and overhyped products I've ever purchased.

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I agree that it doesn't last that long and it has been hyped up a lot on the internet. However I recently switched back to NXT as I find it does a fantastic job of hiding the swirl marks on my black finish. And it definitely makes the black look darker and shinier than my Zaino Z2 (although I was using the old formula) I also find NXT is easier to remove than the old Z2.

But I know it's not as durable as Zaino. And you need to buff the car a second time after you put on NXT to get rid of that greasy look (it's got a lot of petroleum in it)

For the winter time I get a detail shop to throw on some Meguiars #26, which is a lot more durable. But in the warm weather when I don't mind waxing myself every couple of weeks, I'm going to continue using NXT for now.

 

[Russell]

Finsh Kare 2180 sealant and 425 quick detailer really makes a vehicle very reflective and slick. Not sure on durability as just starting to try it out.

 

[dbvettez06]

I have been using Zaino for about 5 years....The ease of application, and durability sold me on it..A bit pricey, but it works great...It would be nice some day to see a comparison for all wax/polishes....