Myth Using Synthetic 10W30 Today in GDI Engines ?

[Sam_Julier]

I would agree with you. I would also say that I would not agree that there is any significant recent changes in raw materials to support the original post. There is certainly no disadvantage to formulate with low volatility in mind. IVD's are the totality of everything allowed to reach a non fuel wetted valve. Keeping the oil in the pan is the goal. Keeping the engine clean has a lot of merit as well.

The last two sentences are spot on.

I‘ve been looking for a way to summarize this thread (and others) into useful information for my mechanics, also long time friends.
They have 4 lifts fixing Euro cars every day. 60% or more are GDI engines.

They are constantly dealing with sludged engines, clogged PCV systems, seal issues etc. Every week, not once a month. They implore their customers to stick to 5k OCIs and use only Euro spec oils with 0w40 being the dominant fill. But the issues continue with customers bringing in cars the dealers cannot fix.

The common demoniators are GDI, short trips and OCIs > 5k.

Recently they began using EC30. Switching to HPL is under consideration.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Sam

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

Best recommendation is once an engine is broken in it will never be sharper. It is at that point that having an oil that runs clean with good additives makes the most sense for the vehicle. You can then do other things with your time vs worrying about deposits that there was no reason to have to deal with in the first place.

It’s pretty basic. Oils that have esters and or alkylated naphthalenes WILL run clean. That is what those base stocks do. There are several companies that make oils this way. It would be hard to go wrong with any of them.

Novel idea of let’s keep a healthy engine healthy.

David

 

[buster]

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/01/gm-patents-innovative-new-integrated-oil-separator-assembly/

There was only one oil specifically formulated to address the IVD issue that is the now discontinued Valvoline Modern Engine. To this day it is unknown how it worked. They claimed to have used a proprietary detergent system that when in contact with the valves, reduces the chances of being coked on. I have suspected that it was some type of special ester based on the price and smell of the oil.

 

[OVERKILL]

Somewhere, maybe BitOG, I read of a study demonstrating that your #2 predominates. It may have been done by Nissan, as I recall. Evidence included that oil reaching the intake included substantially the same concentrations of additives as the oil in the pan (whereas volatilized base oil would not). Sorry, I didn't save a link.

Yes, I recall that, though I believe this is engine-specific.

 

[ChrisD46]

Best recommendation is once an engine is broken in it will never be sharper. It is at that point that having an oil that runs clean with good additives makes the most sense for the vehicle. You can then do other things with your time vs worrying about deposits that there was no reason to have to deal with in the first place.

It’s pretty basic. Oils that have esters and or alkylated naphthalenes WILL run clean. That is what those base stocks do. There are several companies that make oils this way. It would be hard to go wrong with any of them.

Novel idea of let’s keep a healthy engine healthy.

David

For owners of GDI engines without dual injector technology recap for those wishing to maintain a healthy engine :

1. Use Top Tier gasoline
2. Use a synthetic oil of a grade / weight approved in your vehicle's owner's manual
3. Error on the side of a lower mileage OCI (< 5K miles) for 90% of owners who drive mixed milage over the OCI
4. Clean / replace PCV valve as needed to maintain excellent functional operation
5. Use a bottle of Techron (or equivalent) in the gas tank before every oil change to clean fuel system and engine internals
6. Every 10K ~ 12K miles use CRC (or equivalent) intake valve cleaner (which #5 above does not address)

*Key Question : For American or Asian (i.e. non - European) GDI vehicles still under warrantee which do not allow a x40 weight oil - please explain the benefits gained or desirability differences between say selecting Pennzoil Euro L 5W30 vs. Platinum 5W30 SP D1 / Gen 3 oil for the same <5K mile OCI (i.e. what would I expect to achieve or look to gain by selecting the Pennzoil Euro L 5W30 oil over the Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 oil ) ?

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

If you adhere to step 1 you can skip step 5

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/01/gm-patents-innovative-new-integrated-oil-separator-assembly/

There was only one oil specifically formulated to address the IVD issue that is the now discontinued Valvoline Modern Engine. To this day it is unknown how it worked. They claimed to have used a proprietary detergent system that when in contact with the valves, reduces the chances of being coked on. I have suspected that it was some type of special ester based on the price and smell of the oil.

Ester or AN’s coming back through the crankcase vent will definitely help the valves.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

...
*Key Question : For American or Asian (i.e. non - European) GDI vehicles still under warranty which do not allow a x40 weight oil - please explain the benefits gained or desirability differences between say selecting Pennzoil Euro L 5W30 vs. Platinum 5W30 SP D1 / Gen 3 oil for the same

When you look at the datasheets what do you see in comparison?

 

[odie]

In 2020 they switched to dual port injection. All my previous GDI vehicles before this Accent had tailpipe soot like what's on your fingers. So far, the Palisade has surprised me with very little soot. Fingers crossed.

The '18 Accent is mostly over 45 M.P.H. ( avg. ) and 30 > 35% city ( stop / go ) . Broke it in as descibed in owners manual . Different speeds , no sudden acceleration or hard braking . Always use synthetic oil . Mostly 5w-20 . Lead foot days are over and more for sipping gas . Its average is a bit over 39 m.p.g. calculated since purchase .

 

[Greasymechtech]

Considerations on Carbon Deposit Formation in Gasoline Direct Injection Engine - PDF Free Download

Considerations on Carbon Deposit Formation in Gasoline Direct Injection Engine Gyu-Sob Cha GS Caltex Corporation Contents Introduction : Motivation & Objective of Research Preliminary Test

docplayer.net

 

[odie]

D.I. not a friend of air quality ( particles ) . Most people don't know or care . Don't see much benefit of D.I. in fuel economy over E.F.I.. It also contributes to oil consumption due to fuel dilution which is not a friend to air quality .

 

[wemay]

The '18 Accent is mostly over 45 M.P.H. ( avg. ) and 30 > 35% city ( stop / go ) . Broke it in as descibed in owners manual . Different speeds , no sudden acceleration or hard braking . Always use synthetic oil . Mostly 5w-20 . Lead foot days are over and more for sipping gas . Its average is a bit over 39 m.p.g. calculated since purchase .

Excellent MPG! i have never seen that here in S. Florida. My lead foot days are over too. No desire anymore and the Accent fits that mold because it doesn't have the desire either. Lol.

 

[odie]

Excellent MPG! i have never seen that here in S. Florida. My lead foot days are over too. No desire anymore and the Accent fits that mold because it doesn't have the desire either. Lol.

 

[odie]

The '13 FIT ( 1.5 Ltr. E.F.I. w/ 5 speed auto ) is very close to that of the '18 ACCENT ( 1.6 Ltr. D.I. w/ 6 speed auto ) for highway / city percentage of driving . That average is close to 36 m.p.g. calculated since new .

 

[OldDummy]

I am in the camp that in a GDI engine that using synthetic 10W30 oil with it's lower NOACK and lower VII's content would be best for a GDI engine (in terms of reducing intake valve depositis) ? Conversely , recent updated tech information may prove such a belief may be a myth and no longer valid : 1) Updated information suggests a lower NOACK oil is not a significant contributor to GDI intake valve deposits . 2) High amounts of VII's are a contributor to intake valve deposits , HOWEVER newer formula VII's are of a composition now to where that is not as much of an issue as with previous earlier SN rated oils and before . Better oil formulas (better base stocks , improved VII's etc.) in SP rated oils suggest that using a good SP rated synthetic D1 / Gen 3 5W30 oil may be best in a GDI engine where both 10W30 and 5W30 were previously recommended in the owner's manual . Lastly , in GDI engines which do not also inclide dual GDI / PFI injectors - it would still be a good practice to runa intaake valve cleaner (i.e. CRC) every 10K miles (or every other OCI along with top tier gas for optimum engine performance ... More capable folks here such as Gokhan , Molekule , etc. can weigh in on key performance indicators for oil / GDI engines I allude to in this post .

I am most definitely not a chemical engineer, but I do agree with you from my years of experience working in the auto industry. Now retired. I bought a leftover 2015 Sonata 2.0T in March of 2016 as a daily driver/road trip vehicle. I was unaware of the Theta II engine issues when I did. Fortunately I treated it like every new vehicle. First oil change at 1000 mi and then again around 3,500. The "recommended" (for efficiency) viscosity was 5W30. I did the first couple of changes with Pennzoil Platinum 5W40. I noticed about half a quart loss every 5K. I switched to 0W40 Ultra Platinum and saw next to zero consumption. I did the induction service every 20K. I took a picture of the top end at 80K when they were replacing the valve cover gasket and it was immaculate. I figured with the lifetime engine warranty, I'd keep it forever as a daily driver but a 70 mph collision at 100K with a 12R24.5 truck tire in March of 2021 changed those plans.

 

[ChrisD46]

Thank you. My apologies. I misread that. Nonetheless it would be interesting to read the tech information to support this. We are currently making a no VII limited series of oils. Anything relative to our task at hand would be good to read.

David

The source of my information , theory , or what ever you wish to refer to technical specifics came from BITOG member @Gokhan .

 

[OldDummy]

In 2020 they switched to dual port injection. All my previous GDI vehicles before this Accent had tailpipe soot like what's on your fingers. So far, the Palisade has surprised me with very little soot. Fingers crossed.

I went from a 2015 Sonata 2.0T gdi to a 2021 Sonata N Line with the direct and port injected 2.5T. The oil stays remarkably cleaner much longer and zero soot on the tailpipes.

 

[ChrisD46]

If you adhere to step 1 you can skip step 5

True - if the top tier fuel source you use has no "hiccups" in their supply chain ... I keep Techron on hand bought on sale because I have family members who will use Kroger , Seven Eleven , Circle K , etc. gas without giving a 2nd thought what gas they fill up their vehicles with .

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

ChrisD46,

I would like to extend a personal invitation for you to attend our open house in May. You can even come a day early. This will allow you to get beyond theory and learn from within an actual production facility. I will take the time to show you the lab and how it is used to answer the questions you are having.

David

 

[Astro14]

ChrisD46,

I would like to extend a personal invitation for you to attend our open house in May. You can even come a day early. This will allow you to get beyond theory and learn from within an actual production facility. I will take the time to show you the lab and how it is used to answer the questions you are having.

David

@ChrisD46 - this is an extraordinary opportunity.

You can see their lab, see how oils are produced and tested. Real data, real numbers. Real performance.

Not extrapolations on a spreadsheet, posted on a oil forum, that have misled so many in their understanding of oil performance, and to which you’re clinging.