My experiences with thin oil

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Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
A boat has the same drag if it is in 60 feet or 600 feet of water(at the same speed). Make the water thicker somehow and then it takes more energy to move the boat at the same speed.


Good point. So long as the oil film keeps the parts apart, it really matters not how far apart they are. Just enough is certainly good enough, and any more will only cause excess viscous drag.

I grew up on heavy oils so am reluctant to go too thin too quickly but I am beginning to see the light thanks to BITOG.
Joe
 
Uh,Oh! Makes sense to me. That's why I run a 5-20 synthetic. I'm just trying to "cheat" a fewer degrees cooler down hear in the Texas heat + I pull a small Bass Boat w/ my Honda V6.
 
Originally Posted By: Lazy JW
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
A boat has the same drag if it is in 60 feet or 600 feet of water(at the same speed). Make the water thicker somehow and then it takes more energy to move the boat at the same speed.


Good point. So long as the oil film keeps the parts apart, it really matters not how far apart they are. Just enough is certainly good enough, and any more will only cause excess viscous drag.

I grew up on heavy oils so am reluctant to go too thin too quickly but I am beginning to see the light thanks to BITOG.
Joe


"Just enough" doesn't take into account mishaps like overheating, detonation, or running the car hard and thinning the oil. You're talking a possible 1-2hp loss between thick and thin. Throw a new air filter in there and air up the tires and you will get more of an effect than running thin oil.
 
Or air up the tires, run a good airfilter and run a thin oil and get the most bang for the buck.
If thin oil were as bad as you fear there would have been trends showing that by now.
 
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Or air up the tires, run a good airfilter and run a thin oil and get the most bang for the buck.
If thin oil were as bad as you fear there would have been trends showing that by now.


Have you seen his (BuickGN's) tear down results? Because unlike most... He actually HAS some.
 
I ran the 5w20 spec'd for my 09 Corolla (My brothers 07 Corolla was 30 wt spec'd). My engine consumed 1/4L in less than a 5000km interval. After some research and discovering that every other country in the world has various 30, and 40 wts. spec'd for this same engine, I gave PP 5w30 a try and I beheld, absolutely zero oil consumption, quieter running and the same fuel consumption. For my application, it worked out better to use the 30wt, but I am glad other are having success with the 20wts.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
My '00 MB E430 just passed 100k miles, I bought it new in April 2000, it had M1 0W40 as factory fill and every oil change until March 2008.

After reading Dr AEHaas writing about thin oil and his experience in using thinner oil in his cars, I decided to try PP 5W20 in E430 in 03-08. Immediately I experienced several things: Engine was much quieter at all RPM specially at idle while waiting for green light. Second is gas mileage improved by more than 4-5% according to on-board computer, it was 17.5-18.5 mpg with M1 0W40, with PP 5W20 mpg improved to 18.8-20.2. Third, coolant went to operating temperature faster with thinner oil. Fourth, PP color got darker much faster than M1 and became black after only 3k miles, while it took more than 5k miles for M1 to become black.

Last July I went to Vegas and got stuck (mostly stop and no go) at Death Valley for almost 3 hours with 120+ degrees to go less than 5 miles, coolant temperature at almost 100* C. Everything was okay and gas mileage went to 26.4 mpg which is more than 2 mpg better than ever before, with same trips and same speed I got 23.2-24.5 mpg.

I was nervous for extreme temperature so that I changed oil in August to Delo 15W40. Immediately, engine noise was back and mpg went south.

I wasn't happy with it at all, so that I changed to M1 0W20(4 quarts) mixed with 10W30(3.5 quarts) + 8 ounces VSOT. Engine is quiet again, mpg went up but not a good as it was with PP 5W20. Just came home after another trip to Vegas, mpg for the round trip was 25.6 mpg compares with 26.4 mpg last summer. Some of the decreasing mpg may be because of winter gas. EPA rating for this '00 E430 was 17 mpg in city and 24 mpg on highway.

My personal conclusion is thinner oil does increase gas mileage and it reduces engine noise (at least in my particular E430). It may increase engine wear, but I don't have evident to back it up because I did not do UOA before and after using thinner oil.

Since the car has more than 100k miles, I don't care if engine wear is accelerated with thinner oil, I love the quiet that the engine does with thinner oil I will use it in the future.



WOW!! 100c,is 212f,that`s pretty hot.but then again,on GM cars,the electric fan comes on around 220-230f. so go figure.
 
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Positive teardown results with BuickGN's situation are fine and dandy, they do not reflect negatively on thin oils though. I don't see the correlation between his good results and why thin oils are bad.

Now since we are refering to a boosted engine with a cult like following I understand the conservatism with sticking with what always has worked.
 
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Throw a new air filter in there and air up the tires and you will get more of an effect than running thin oil.


Air filter was checked every month and it was as clean as a new one, no dusts nor sands nor debris.

Recommended pressure for normal driving is 32F/33R and 36F/42R for high speed (more than 100 MPH), I had 38F/44R for the trip with max pressure on sidewall at 51.

Cleaned air filter and tire pressure at 38F/44R were for all Vegas trips since 2000.
 
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I did not state that the car feels more peppy nor accelerated faster, because if there is any gain or lost in power the amount is so small I could not detect it. I only said these things (with my particular car that is '00 E430): coolant got to operating temperature faster but at lower temperature, engine is quieter specially at idle, fuel economy is better with thinner oils.

The potential down side with thin oil is accelerate engine wear compares with recommended thicker oil, this is what I don't know because I did not do UOA's for before and after experience with thinner oils.

Since I have a lot of M1 0W20 and Synpower 5W20 I bought on sale for next to nothing, I will try it in my '04 Honda S2000 the next few weeks (recommended dino 10W30) to see if I can observe any differences.
 
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Positive teardown results with BuickGN's situation are fine and dandy, they do not reflect negatively on thin oils though. I don't see the correlation between his good results and why thin oils are bad.

Now since we are refering to a boosted engine with a cult like following I understand the conservatism with sticking with what always has worked.


I was thinking more of the negative results he had with thinner oils......
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Positive teardown results with BuickGN's situation are fine and dandy, they do not reflect negatively on thin oils though. I don't see the correlation between his good results and why thin oils are bad.

Now since we are refering to a boosted engine with a cult like following I understand the conservatism with sticking with what always has worked.



I was thinking more of the negative results he had with thinner oils......


Very negative lol. The old days were fun though. 18 years old, the car had a terminal rod knock and I couldn't afford a rebuild. I made it an entire year on straight 60wt with a rod knock. I even had to disable the shifter safety interlock so I could start it in drive so the rpms didn't come up too high in the winter and blow the oil filter off.

Seriously though, there was a huge difference in rod bearing and cylinder wall/ring wear with thick oil.
 
My cars have been running really nice with 5w25 - i have a mitsubishi 1.5l 12 valve engine in my Colt, and a scoobaru 2.5 NA flat four in the Impreza, both specced for 5w30 - mix 50:50 5w20:5w30 engines start better and easier, and all run really nice and quiet. with it being winter, i'm using straight synthetic. in summer i'll switch to dino. even running mobil 5w30 synthetic extended, against advice here, in the Mitsubishi tranny. driving the Colt feels like I tricked God into getting Him to loan me His car :)
 
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
I ran the 5w20 spec'd for my 09 Corolla (My brothers 07 Corolla was 30 wt spec'd). My engine consumed 1/4L in less than a 5000km interval. After some research and discovering that every other country in the world has various 30, and 40 wts. spec'd for this same engine, I gave PP 5w30 a try and I beheld, absolutely zero oil consumption, quieter running and the same fuel consumption. For my application, it worked out better to use the 30wt, but I am glad other are having success with the 20wts.


In my 08 corolla, it's spec'd for a 30w as well and i'm experiencing the same as you with oil consumption using a 20w.
And it DOES NOT get better mpg with the 20w. Same mpg as when i had 5w30 in there last OCI, and i actually squoze 42 mpg out of it all hiway at 70mph.
Quieter running here as well with the 30w.

Next OCI, i'll be using SSO 0w30 in this car and 15-25k OCI's. My 5.7L tundra which is spec'd for a 20w will also be getting the SSO treatment.
 
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Positive teardown results with BuickGN's situation are fine and dandy, they do not reflect negatively on thin oils though. I don't see the correlation between his good results and why thin oils are bad.

Now since we are refering to a boosted engine with a cult like following I understand the conservatism with sticking with what always has worked.



I was thinking more of the negative results he had with thinner oils......


Very negative lol. The old days were fun though. 18 years old, the car had a terminal rod knock and I couldn't afford a rebuild. I made it an entire year on straight 60wt with a rod knock. I even had to disable the shifter safety interlock so I could start it in drive so the rpms didn't come up too high in the winter and blow the oil filter off.

Seriously though, there was a huge difference in rod bearing and cylinder wall/ring wear with thick oil.


Exactly!

I ran 0w20 in my Mustang one winter. But I drove it VERY easy the entire winter. It's winter! The car had enough time keeping itself in a straight line being driven conservatively......

With the M1 TDT in the Townie, even today, -13C, no difficulty starting, no noise, nothing. And, I still flog it when it's warmed up. Why not? There's LOTS of protection there with arguably one of the best oils and with the long wheelbase, it's a lot easier to keep straight
wink.gif


Your engine has a lot in common with the OP because of the forced induction and limited displacement. Driving style, because you race your car, again, similar.
 
If most oils tend to fall out of grade with mileage, then what would happen to 5w-20 or 0w-20 oil? It could drop into the range of a 10 weight oil? With extended OCIs I don't like to think about that scenario during a very hot summer and stop and go driving. I thought that oil should be a compromise between low-temp flowability and high temp shear strength, hence multi-grade weights. Ultra-low weight oil could have benefits in the short term (racing) but for extended OCI normal use, I'm skeptical.
 
Originally Posted By: ZGRider
If most oils tend to fall out of grade with mileage, then what would happen to 5w-20 or 0w-20 oil? It could drop into the range of a 10 weight oil? With extended OCIs I don't like to think about that scenario during a very hot summer and stop and go driving. I thought that oil should be a compromise between low-temp flowability and high temp shear strength, hence multi-grade weights. Ultra-low weight oil could have benefits in the short term (racing) but for extended OCI normal use, I'm skeptical.


Be careful, you're going to get blindsided by the thin oil nazis on here lol.

I think 0w-20 has a place in a very cold climate where the car rarely gets to full operating temp.

Why people insist on running a 0w-20 in a climate that never gets below freezing and has 100+ degree summers, I'll never know.

It's as if hot, high load protection takes a backseat to extreme cold flow that most will never benefit from.
 
FWIW:

There is a difference between driving a car and DRIVING a car.

BuickGN and the OP (as well as myself) are doing the latter.....

Does anybody in this thread actually RACE a car with a 5w20 or 0w20 as well as the car being daily driven?
 
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