My experiences with thin oil

[Ken42]

Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: Ken42
Nobody mentioned the dirty factor? Wonder if that is cause the thinner oil is able to get into the smaller nooks and carnies of the engine?
Ken


I think the general consensus is that it flows better.

What's the dirty factor?


He mentioned in the first post that the PP got dirtier faster then the heavy weight oils did. 3K verses 5K.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Did he take a particle count?? No, I bet he percieved the oil darkening quicker as "dirtier" Which is not truely dirty..just dark. Certain additives or basestock combinations can get darker quicker. Oil color is not a good indicator of cleanlnes or lack there of. Do not think your clear oil is slean or your dark oil is dirty.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: Ken42
Nobody mentioned the dirty factor? Wonder if that is cause the thinner oil is able to get into the smaller nooks and carnies of the engine?
Ken


Throw a straight 60wt in there and it will still get to all the same places as a 0W-20.

Color change doesn't necessarily mean it's dirty.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
To me the increase in MPG means less friction and drag, that would equate to less wear in my opinion. If MPG dropped and the engine was running hotter then I would say more friction, more drag, more wear.

JMO,
Frank D


The thinner suff is easier to pump. There's the friction of the oil itself in bearings. The light stuff may have a very small impact on mileage but it's not because it's preventing parts from rubbing together better than the heavy stuff. It's from the engine having to push around the weight of the oil itself in bearings or otherwise.

I hope this makes sense. Two Xanax and I'm about to fall out of my chair lol.

 

[FZ1]

I ain't pushin' no heavy weight awl thru my engine! Thinner oil tends to run cooler. Just go to a thicker oil within the oem spec grade if you want "heavier" awl.

 

[sprintman]

Those who know me will freak but I think I'll try Fuchs Titan GT1 0W20 in our Outback after summer. One of the best oils available in the world but still a freaky thing to do in Australia.

 

[tdi-rick]

Originally Posted By: sprintman
Those who know me will freak but I think I'll try Fuchs Titan GT1 0W20 in our Outback after summer. One of the best oils available in the world but still a freaky thing to do in Australia.


DON'T DO IT ! It'll surely blow !

Go back to some Penrite 40W-70, say five Hail Mary's and you might be OK

Imagine how freaked out the few that knew were when I was running NEO 0W-5 in the race car 15 years ago.

 

[Johnny]

Maybe we in North America are not as stupid as the rest of the world thinks we are when it comes to our thin oils.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Originally Posted By: AEHaas
I have been using 20 grade oils in Maybachs, Ferraris and Lamborghinis for 4 - 5 years and as yet nothing blew up and UOA have been better than others using thicker, OEM oils, in the same cars.

aehaas


Doc, you must be feeling a sense of vindication these days!

I remember when your white papers went up you had enormous opposition to the notion that thin oils were the future. And look at ya now! Acceptance! Nary a word of opposition! I bought into thin oils a little before I started reading here (the stuff was GF4 and SL/SM back then, which is pretty stern testing, after all). But those white papers you banged out and posted vindicated what I was tooling around with anyway. Meanwhile, I'll never forget the sky-is-falling foolishness that erupted about valve train noise, extreme wear, and breakdown of additives and base oil if 5W20 and 0W20 oils were to be used.

It only took about five years, but finally, it took! Again I say:

 

[Boomer]

Reading all of these posts brings back memories of the '70s when I was a struggling grad student in Illinois. I knew a lot of guys out there with pickups who SWORE by 20 weight (straight) oil and ran it year round. They claimed it gave them better mileage and a quiter engine, etc. I could never bring myself to use it then but looking back, these guys were probably on to something.

 

[Jim Allen]

The before and after oil temps in this scenario would interest me greatly and tell a lot. The difference in water temps, however, is small... almost too small to be statistically significant. Still, if oil temp was lower, the load on the cooling system would be less and, in theory, the car would run cooler to some degree. This would be especially true if the car had a water to oil heat exchanger (oil to water cooler).

A controlled study on this could be interesting. Run 15W40 in an engine that has accurate oil and coolant temp monitoring devices, then switch to 5W20 in the same ambient conditions and note the differences.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
To me the increase in MPG means less friction and drag, that would equate to less wear in my opinion. If MPG dropped and the engine was running hotter then I would say more friction, more drag, more wear.

JMO,
Frank D


The thinner suff is easier to pump. There's the friction of the oil itself in bearings. The light stuff may have a very small impact on mileage but it's not because it's preventing parts from rubbing together better than the heavy stuff. It's from the engine having to push around the weight of the oil itself in bearings or otherwise.

I hope this makes sense. Two Xanax and I'm about to fall out of my chair lol.


It makes sense, but if the engine oil is cooler, and the engine is getting better mpg then it is running more efficiently? At least in my twisted way of thinking that's how I see it.

Frank D

 

[cheetahdriver]

i have been working with a guy on the miata forums who has a MSM (turbo'd) in AZ. we saw similar results with his car. going to 0w40 increased his oil temps significantly, 0w30 (all M1) took the temps back down. our conclusions (with some consultations with one of the experts here) was that the pumping losses into the heavier oil were the cause of the higher oil temps. it should be noted that the MSM miata is kinda cooling challenged for AZ, so this would not be an issue in cooler, damper environments.

while it is counter-intuitive, the solution to high oil temps is often to go thinner, not thicker...

 

[mechtech2]

I am surprised to hear that the thinner oil was quieter. Thicker oil has historically been the way to go to quiet things down [within reason.]

 

[AEHaas]

"I am surprised to hear that the thinner oil was quieter. Thicker oil has historically been the way to go to quiet things down [within reason.] "

My wife's Murcielago had loud engine noises when new with the OEM Agip 5W-40 oil. After switching to 0W-30 Mobil 1 it was notably quieter. After changing to Red Line 5W-20 it was almost silent in a way. Now we are using 0W-20 RLI and it is the smoothest and quietest yet, truly remarkable.

aehaas

 

[buster]

Quote:
Now we are using 0W-20 RLI and it is the smoothest and quietest yet, truly remarkable.



Good to know.

I would probably get a particle size profile done if I were relying on using UOA's in a car spec's for a thicker viscosity. Wear metals could be larger than what a spectro would pick up. Thoughts? Something like a ferrography test.

 

[zoomzoom]

Originally Posted By: Ken42
Nobody mentioned the dirty factor? Wonder if that is cause the thinner oil is able to get into the smaller nooks and carnies of the engine?
Ken


I would think that is more due to the higher blow by with thinner oil...

 

[zoomzoom]

Originally Posted By: AEHaas
"I am surprised to hear that the thinner oil was quieter. Thicker oil has historically been the way to go to quiet things down [within reason.] "

My wife's Murcielago had loud engine noises when new with the OEM Agip 5W-40 oil. After switching to 0W-30 Mobil 1 it was notably quieter. After changing to Red Line 5W-20 it was almost silent in a way. Now we are using 0W-20 RLI and it is the smoothest and quietest yet, truly remarkable.

aehaas


Aehaas I have a question for you.

I have twin turbo Audi S4 that I track from time to time. I use GC 0W-30 year round in it.
During normal driving I would observe oil temps around 220-225F, however when I track the car they go up to 275-280F range.

I have a dilemma, should I decrease or increase viscosity to reduce oil temps on the track and does the fact that car is turbocharged play a role in which direction should I go(keeping in mind turbo protection)?

So my choices are redline 5W-20 or redline 5W-40, what say you?

 

[AEHaas]

Another choice is Red LIne 5W-30, I might start here and follow pressure with the temperatures you are seeing. In general a 20 grade may work but you would want to try it gradually then work your way up in engine stress. Follow up with UOA. Only programmed testing will get you the right oil.

aehaas

 

[zoomzoom]

Originally Posted By: AEHaas
Another choice is Red LIne 5W-30, I might start here and follow pressure with the temperatures you are seeing. In general a 20 grade may work but you would want to try it gradually then work your way up in engine stress. Follow up with UOA. Only programmed testing will get you the right oil.

aehaas


hm redline 5W-30 has higher HTHS then GC I am currently using...

How is HTHS rating of oil related to oil temperature?

Logic would say higher HTHS = higher pumping resistance = higher oil temperature?