Tesla is continuing to slash their margins, and market share. Elon just put the entire Mexican factory on hold indefinitely along with the cheaper "Model 2". Tesla isn't the king of the heap as they once were. It seems as if Tesla is stagnating which is great. If Tesla board members were smart they'd oust musk and start looking for a leader with a sense of direction.
Musk Says Tesla ‘Dug Our Own Grave’ With The Cybertruck
- Thread starter 97prizm
- Start date
Perhaps share some numbers for comparison? I do. Otherwise it's just opinion.
Someone took this video at a Supercharger a few days ago. Only 77kW at 71% and 55 minutes remaining to hit 100%.
I’ve said it before, but it’s my opinion GM’s Ultium cells and Tesla’s 4680 cells really only have one benefit - cost. Both have shown they generally charge worse than most other cells. 4680 equipped Model Ys are the slowest charging Model Y versions.
I’ve said it before, but it’s my opinion GM’s Ultium cells and Tesla’s 4680 cells really only have one benefit - cost. Both have shown they generally charge worse than most other cells. 4680 equipped Model Ys are the slowest charging Model Y versions.
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Tesla's operating margin slid to 7.6%, compared with 17.2% in the third quarter of 2022. Tesla's margins have dwindled as the company repeatedly slashed prices on many of its models in the face of weak domestic demand and increasing competition from Chinese EV makers like BYD Co.Oct 18, 2023
How do those numbers compare to other car companies, say like the big 3? Both EV and overall?
What is Tesla's market share of the EV market, since you mentioned it?
The reason I ask is, numbers are important but meaningless without context.
Another Quarter, Another Record: EV Sales in the U.S. Surpass 300,000 in Q3, as Tesla Share of EV Segment Tumbles to 50%." Cox Automotive. "Electric Vehicle Sales Report — Q3 2023."Oct 13, 2023
Good. Let's see if we can glean some information from these numbers...
Is 50% of the market good or bad? Doesn't that mean Tesla sells as many EVs as everyone else combined? What are their competitor's EV margins?
I am asking for context. What do the numbers mean?
Good conversation @97prizm ...
Ummmm I’m sure you understand that development of a new product cost money.
Years away? Maybe just like it took Tesla over 10 years to turn a profit yet GM is profitable all the time.
BTW the statements about the tax credit are to show that there is no EV market without them and when they end Tesla is in a pickle.
Of course the CyberTruck provides ammunition, for goodness sakes it’s a bottomless pit in losses going on for over half a decade.
How incredibly incompetent can a CEO be?
YEARS behind schedule this famous company can’t even get a promised truck out. And now that it’s finally coming out after years of delay, it’s turning into a money losing proposition for the next couple years will be close to a decade of losses just trying to turn out one vehicle.
Yes, and they still turned quite a healthy profit even if you took away those credits, better than even Toyota.
Provide source please to support your statement. It doesnt exist
Tesla is no where near the company Toyota is, Tesla net income way below Toyota, Tesla never will be the way in the direction it's going which is in reverse.
Your statement is just off around 10 billion dollars or so. It's a silly conversation but thought I would provide some information.
Source - https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TM/toyota/net-income
Source - https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/net-income
Here is some more Earnings Per Share - Toyota far exceeds Tesla
Let's see, Tesla earned 78 cents per share last quarter. Toyota earned $7.06 per share last quarter. Pulling numbers out of a hat, Toyota earned 800% more per share than Tesla last quarter.
Source is the same links already posted above.
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Tesla earned $15,653 in gross profit per vehicle in the third quarter of 2022 - more than twice as much as Volkswagen AG (VOWG_p.DE), four times the comparable figure at Toyota Motor Corp (7203. T) and five times more than Ford Motor Co (F.N), according to a Reuters analysis.
So it depends on your measurement scale and timeline.
Tesla and Toyota are two very different companies, but they are the world’s most valuable auto makers. Tesla’s market capitalization is about $840 billion while Toyota’s is about $270 billion.
One reason for the difference is Tesla only sells EVs, which are growing rapidly and taking share from traditional vehicles.
So it depends on your measurement scale and timeline.
Tesla and Toyota are two very different companies, but they are the world’s most valuable auto makers. Tesla’s market capitalization is about $840 billion while Toyota’s is about $270 billion.
One reason for the difference is Tesla only sells EVs, which are growing rapidly and taking share from traditional vehicles.
How fast to get to 71% and from where did it start? Thats pretty low at that SOC.
I'm not sure we've seen all the 4680 versions tested have we?
I probably most likely looked at the wrong thing, I’m not an accountant. Still though, Tesla has been doing well and turning a profit regardless of carbon credits. We’ll see what the future brings but I just don’t get this massive dog pile against Tesla.
Well, I was a Solutions Architect using years of data and statistical forecast tools to glean information for the executive staff at a multi billion dollar Silicon Valley company. Numbers, by themselves, can mean whatever you want them to mean, or what you think they mean. But if you choose to be rigorous, you will find truth in numbers. The application I developed was responsible for reporting financials to the SEC, so it was pretty well validated.
I don't get the anti Tesla rhetoric either; I am proud to see a great American company leading the world again.
That and the Muskrat said and I quote " Nobody will be able to get an all-electric truck to market before us we're so far ahead it's crazy."
From the perspective of human psychology we all root for the underdog and David beating Goliath. Most still see Elon as the underdog although his evilness is creeping in via Twitter. GM / Ford / etc have been the big boys for decades so there's that.
Cyber Truck is a pet project from Elon instead of engineering driven so now they are stuck with a material that's too stiff to press and bent to precision, and still need to look beautiful to sell to the geeks, instead of looking like a movie prop from afar.
Most likely they are too far into the development to make major changes to the style now, and any change would make people withdraw their deposits (cash flow problem for Tesla), and therefore they need the sub 10 micron nonsense to patch that up or else they can't sell it.
The fundamental problem is a flat stainless steel body cannot hide defects like a car with pressed steel or plastic body, yet the they sold that vision to the buyers. Unless they mill the body out of a brick they won't get what they want. The only hope is to sell just enough so they can rapidly make a new body style to address this.
Still the same question remain: why stainless steel (the only reason for this shape)? The only reason I can think of is to make the scale larger for this material so the space X rockets can reduce cost. I can't think of ANY other reason.
The biggest problem in Fremont (I work across the street from Tesla Fremont in my new job) is not union. It is the housing cost. You really need to make 120k as a single new college grad to live in your own apartment and probably 160k with a spouse making 120k to start a family here. If they want union they will still be making not enough to live. I don't know about other plants but Fremont is actually quite expensive (with good schools), home starts at 1M and can go up to 2M easily.
In a decade or so it will turn into their pilot plant and R&D center. They can union all they want and they would be laid off and hired back as technicians / engineers instead if they make the cut at higher pay, regardless of union or not.
This is what I read from I forgot which Wall Street banker's analysis: The biggest risk to Tesla is "what if Elon quit" not "what if Elon screw up". A lot of its value is betting on Elon getting things done beyond what a typical Harvard MBA can, and we have seen how many other Harvard MBAs destroyed large industrial companies in the US.
Putting Mexican on hold when interest rate and trade war going on make sense. Despite Tesla being a "tech" company raising money near free like a Tech company instead of a car company, they are still facing rising interest rate impacting their funding as well as their customers' funding. All car companies should put their expansion plan on hold at the moment, not just because of interest rates but also their rising union wages.
Not a Telsa investor so I guess I'll take this HSBC analysis with a grain of salt. If you only look at the automotive section of Tesla I guess you can compare this to Toyota, if Toyota runs their business like Tesla. They don't.
I also don't agree with some Tesla investors' justification on their stock price and future. Sure they are 4x Toyota now but they are a high volatility stock vs Toyota likely being steady year after year. Will Tesla crash? rise to the moon? Who knows. I know Toyota is a better deal for me and more predictable if I want a predictable company.
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