Turo Rental: 2022 Toyota Sienna Hybrid

Thanks for the detailed review. Our odyssey is over 80k, lots of life left with a little maintenance. I’m glad of that. While the fuel bills add up, we can hit 30 in a long trip if driving very careful… but it is abysmal around town. Hybrid would be great in that regard.

But our close friends have had a lot more issues with their Sienna than we’ve had with our odyssey of the same age. And the downsides you highlight give me concerns. Good thing we have time before needing to buy.

Thanks again for the great review!
 
You must have an extremely small/tight 3 car garage? Don't understand how a minivan can't fit either in width or length anywhere regardless of the mirrors.
They’re standard, I think. I can pull my 96 ram into the really old garages around here. It’s tight but it fits. But the issue is that 1” on each side for the mirrors is nerve racking, and folding them in and out is a pain.
 
Thanks for the detailed review. Our odyssey is over 80k, lots of life left with a little maintenance. I’m glad of that. While the fuel bills add up, we can hit 30 in a long trip if driving very careful… but it is abysmal around town. Hybrid would be great in that regard.

But our close friends have had a lot more issues with their Sienna than we’ve had with our odyssey of the same age. And the downsides you highlight give me concerns. Good thing we have time before needing to buy.

Thanks again for the great review!
We narrowed to 3 SUV’s now:
1. 2023 Honda Pilot. It seems they really upend the game. From numbers it is even bit bigger than Atlas. Major concern to me with old Pilots (2nd and 3rd gen) was seating position. 2nd gen that my in laws left here was for me the most uncomfortable vehicle to drive, until I rented Ford Explorer. Based on photos it seems Honda improved seats etc. So, will see once it actually comes to dealership.
2. Grand Highlander: I want to see what is it. To me big thing is turbo engine. I live at 6,800ft. Turbo rules here. And I drive often above 10,000ft. Hopefully it has better seats.
3. VW Atlas: mostly I am hesitant as Honda seems better package and Toyota’s turbo packs more punch. Atlas is typical VW design, like they did it with an axe. No nonsense inside, so there is a lot of space. But engine is old in teeth, and while it moves good (better than VR6) compared to Toyota’s turbo it is some 50lb-ft short.
good thing is, local dealer is giving 7yr/100k warranty on them.

And no I am not getting X7. @UG_Passat asked this. I don’t need oversized ballistic missile that is actually smaller inside than current Highlander.
 
We narrowed to 3 SUV’s now:
1. 2023 Honda Pilot. It seems they really upend the game. From numbers it is even bit bigger than Atlas. Major concern to me with old Pilots (2nd and 3rd gen) was seating position. 2nd gen that my in laws left here was for me the most uncomfortable vehicle to drive, until I rented Ford Explorer. Based on photos it seems Honda improved seats etc. So, will see once it actually comes to dealership.
2. Grand Highlander: I want to see what is it. To me big thing is turbo engine. I live at 6,800ft. Turbo rules here. And I drive often above 10,000ft. Hopefully it has better seats.
3. VW Atlas: mostly I am hesitant as Honda seems better package and Toyota’s turbo packs more punch. Atlas is typical VW design, like they did it with an axe. No nonsense inside, so there is a lot of space. But engine is old in teeth, and while it moves good (better than VR6) compared to Toyota’s turbo it is some 50lb-ft short.
good thing is, local dealer is giving 7yr/100k warranty on them.

And no I am not getting X7. @UG_Passat asked this. I don’t need oversized ballistic missile that is actually smaller inside than current Highlander.
You’ll miss the sliding doors I think ;)

That hybrid max setup is intriguing, though a bit concerning as well given that hybrids shutting off turbo engines after long climbs can be problematic, so hopefully they have electric oil and water cooling to the turbocharger.

The pilot looks interesting but without a hybrid it’s a non starter. Will they have one?
 
Last edited:
We narrowed to 3 SUV’s now:
1. 2023 Honda Pilot. It seems they really upend the game. From numbers it is even bit bigger than Atlas. Major concern to me with old Pilots (2nd and 3rd gen) was seating position. 2nd gen that my in laws left here was for me the most uncomfortable vehicle to drive, until I rented Ford Explorer. Based on photos it seems Honda improved seats etc. So, will see once it actually comes to dealership.
2. Grand Highlander: I want to see what is it. To me big thing is turbo engine. I live at 6,800ft. Turbo rules here. And I drive often above 10,000ft. Hopefully it has better seats.
3. VW Atlas: mostly I am hesitant as Honda seems better package and Toyota’s turbo packs more punch. Atlas is typical VW design, like they did it with an axe. No nonsense inside, so there is a lot of space. But engine is old in teeth, and while it moves good (better than VR6) compared to Toyota’s turbo it is some 50lb-ft short.
good thing is, local dealer is giving 7yr/100k warranty on them.

And no I am not getting X7. @UG_Passat asked this. I don’t need oversized ballistic missile that is actually smaller inside than current Highlander.

As the owner of a 3rd gen MDX, I'm curious how Honda/Acura makes the MDX competitive against the new Pilot. The new Pilot looks like a compelling "value" that undercuts what Acura is charging for the MDX (and older technology). The 2023 Pilot Elite comes in around $53K, while a MDX Tech is about $57.5K. (The MDX Advance is the closer one to compare to and approaches $65K)

I agree with JHZR2 -- I think you'll miss the sliding doors. It was a change for my family after becoming used to the Sienna and Odyssey.
 
As the owner of a 3rd gen MDX, I'm curious how Honda/Acura makes the MDX competitive against the new Pilot. The new Pilot looks like a compelling "value" that undercuts what Acura is charging for the MDX (and older technology). The 2023 Pilot Elite comes in around $53K, while a MDX Tech is about $57.5K. (The MDX Advance is the closer one to compare to and approaches $65K)

I agree with JHZR2 -- I think you'll miss the sliding doors. It was a change for my family after becoming used to the Sienna and Odyssey.
The MDX isn't meant to compete against the Pilot. The MDX is for Pilot owners that want a more luxurious version of their car.

Just like the RX isn't meant to compete against the Highlander.

Better materials, such as nicer leather and real wood and the Premium dealership experience.
 
As the owner of a 3rd gen MDX, I'm curious how Honda/Acura makes the MDX competitive against the new Pilot. The new Pilot looks like a compelling "value" that undercuts what Acura is charging for the MDX (and older technology). The 2023 Pilot Elite comes in around $53K, while a MDX Tech is about $57.5K. (The MDX Advance is the closer one to compare to and approaches $65K)

I agree with JHZR2 -- I think you'll miss the sliding doors. It was a change for my family after becoming used to the Sienna and Odyssey.
I won't miss sliding doors that much. As I stated, we use this vehicle for road trips. There is no SUV I would drive on a daily basis next to my BMW. I drive kids to school, daycare, go to work, all in BMW. I sometimes used a Sienna to take a kid to daycare just so I turn on the vehicle, roll wheels, and keep things moving. Last year I made with Sienna maybe 5,000 miles, and with BMW around 30,000.
But kids are starting to ski, and the bigger vehicle is more practical for hauling them to ski slopes, and changing them there (we don't usually sleep there as we are close). When I go alone, I just drive BMW. Also, we will start to make more road trips, and generally spend more time on the road going to visit family as airline tickets are expensive and bcs. we both have flexible jobs, we can afford to travel by car.
So, yeah, sliding doors are good, but it won't be that big of an issue on daily basis.
 
The MDX isn't meant to compete against the Pilot. The MDX is for Pilot owners that want a more luxurious version of their car.

Just like the RX isn't meant to compete against the Highlander.

Better materials, such as nicer leather and real wood and the Premium dealership experience.
When I shopped 3-row SUVs, the MDX handled exceptionally well for a vehicle with that number of rows (without getting into BMW/Mercedes/Audi territory). The Pilot felt bulkier, but that's reflected in its interior capacity.

Once you are shopping the Honda Elite trims, the interior quality isn't significantly better over Acura. There is acoustic glass on windshield and front doors. The glove compartment is felt lined, but the leather feels similar. Local dealership experience is significantly better with Acura over Honda, with a corresponding price difference.

That said, the 2023 Pilot looks really compelling. Now let's see what type of markup Honda dealers put on it. Wouldn't be surprised to see a Pilot Elite with markup approach what could be negotiated for a MDX Tech.
 
When I shopped 3-row SUVs, the MDX handled exceptionally well for a vehicle with that number of rows (without getting into BMW/Mercedes/Audi territory). The Pilot felt bulkier, but that's reflected in its interior capacity.

Once you are shopping the Honda Elite trims, the interior quality isn't significantly better over Acura. There is acoustic glass on windshield and front doors. The glove compartment is felt lined, but the leather feels similar. Local dealership experience is significantly better with Acura over Honda, with a corresponding price difference.

That said, the 2023 Pilot looks really compelling. Now let's see what type of markup Honda dealers put on it. Wouldn't be surprised to see a Pilot Elite with markup approach what could be negotiated for a MDX Tech.
Honda dealers here in Colorado Springs want $2,000 over MSRP. No negotiations on the old Pilot (Not interested, but I was just checking). In Denver, no markup, and the old Pilot goes $3,000 below MSRP. That is AN HOUR up north.
So, I think it will be dealership/market dependent.
It seems Honda is not as affected by supply/chain issues as Toyota is.
 
It seems Honda is not as affected by supply/chain issues as Toyota is.
True, but that's because Honda doesn't manufacture anywhere near as many vehicles as Toyota does, and they don't have anywhere near the model diversity.
 
True, but that's because Honda doesn't manufacture anywhere near as many vehicles as Toyota does, and they don't have anywhere near the model diversity.
Toyota made less YTD than 2021. In June Toyota was 21% down in deliveries compared to last year. I am comparing Toyota to Toyota. It is irrelevant how much Honda sells. Honda has its capacity, not Toyota’s capacity.
Toyota was also hit by labor issues in Texas plant.
 
Our 19 Honda Pilot 6 speed gets 30 mpgs loaded down on the highway. Even with the crappy VCM system disabled and ECON mode off.
 
Back
Top