The internals of this engine are really sludged up. And they have documentation that 10K oil service was done. Make of it what you will.
More Evidence That Doesn't Support 10K Oil Changes
- Thread starter billt460
- Start date
- Status
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
And then you have member tig1 with 320k miles on 10k oci on his 2007 Fusion. Engine , climate, and use case specific maybe. BITOG knows this, John Q. Public not so much.
We didn't get sludged up engines when I worked at the dealership, but by 10k (they all went at least 10k) the oil was done. This was using ACEA C3 oils, with MB 229.52 approval and dexos2 license. I can see oils that are not able to get approval do worse. And especially in engines prone to sludge. DI or PI doesn't make a significant difference. Some had the oil dipstick stuck in the tube after 1 year/10k miles.
I never seen that on A3/B4 oils (total quartz 9000 5W-40 to be specific), and those engines ran higher intervals too. But none of the gas engines were direct injection either.
I never seen that on A3/B4 oils (total quartz 9000 5W-40 to be specific), and those engines ran higher intervals too. But none of the gas engines were direct injection either.
Simply put, blanket statements about how far an oil can go can get someone in trouble. If a person wants to know for sure how long an oil can go, pick the oil, use it and get a UOA to determine the condition of the oil. If you feel lucky and think in this example 10K is the goal, go for it and get a UOA. You'll either be pleasantly surprised or disappointed. A safer approach could mean taking a sample via the dipstick tube at 5K or 7.5K and make the determination based on that. Bottom line taking the advice of someone else can be fools errand imo.
dnewton3
Staff member
More evidence that making 100% blanket statements are akin to clickbait ...
This YT video is just monetization for his sake and not really a comprehensive view by any stretch.
Some engines will not fare well with 10k mile OCIs; that's very true.
Some engines will do quite well with 20k mile OCIs; that's also true.
The OCI is NOT the only variable to consider. Here's a starter list of things that need to be taken into account in addition to the OCI duration:
- engine series history for contamination (soot and insolubles)
- engine series history for mechanical issues and design considerations (induction type; ring pack drain back; sump capacity, etc ...)
- operational pattern (short trips in cold weather; long trips at full temp; etc)
- lubricant chosen (a low cost lube with a low quantity of DI package, vs a very high quality lube with an excellent DI package specifically designed for long use)
- maintenance plan (UOAs? PCs? etc)
Examples:
The Saturn SL2 engines were known to sludge rings badly even with 5k mile OCIs. They were "iffy" at 3k mile OCIs.
The Ford Cyclone n/a engines are known to easily run 10k+ miles and stay perfectly clean inside with "normal" lubes (ST dino oil, and I've got UOAs to prove it).
The proper answer to any OCI question is "it depends", because as soon as you change one of those input variables listed above, you have to adjust one or more of the others to compensate.
This YT video is just monetization for his sake and not really a comprehensive view by any stretch.
Some engines will not fare well with 10k mile OCIs; that's very true.
Some engines will do quite well with 20k mile OCIs; that's also true.
The OCI is NOT the only variable to consider. Here's a starter list of things that need to be taken into account in addition to the OCI duration:
- engine series history for contamination (soot and insolubles)
- engine series history for mechanical issues and design considerations (induction type; ring pack drain back; sump capacity, etc ...)
- operational pattern (short trips in cold weather; long trips at full temp; etc)
- lubricant chosen (a low cost lube with a low quantity of DI package, vs a very high quality lube with an excellent DI package specifically designed for long use)
- maintenance plan (UOAs? PCs? etc)
Examples:
The Saturn SL2 engines were known to sludge rings badly even with 5k mile OCIs. They were "iffy" at 3k mile OCIs.
The Ford Cyclone n/a engines are known to easily run 10k+ miles and stay perfectly clean inside with "normal" lubes (ST dino oil, and I've got UOAs to prove it).
The proper answer to any OCI question is "it depends", because as soon as you change one of those input variables listed above, you have to adjust one or more of the others to compensate.
Last edited:
It was a leased vehicle for the first 43k miles with no service records, so this example is null and void.
For average Joe vehicle owner. 5k is a good number that will just about always work in almost all circumstances. That's what shops like this are working with. For BITOGers we all know longer OCIs are easily achieved with great results using the info and tools we have access to.
Exactly. He said the records were only as far back as ~50(?)K? OP said 10k...more like 7.5k..."evidence"
Why do so many BITOGers so badly want to justify their unnecessary short OCIs?
dnewton3
Staff member
It did appear to me that the sludge was very loose and still not firmed up yet. That engine could be "saved" by using some HPL or Amsoil with a really good detergent package and a good filter (FE, etc). It's not gone over the "Edge" yet .... (pun intended)
That's true, however it makes no change imo about the problems often associated with following blanket statements. People join forums like this for various reasons, a few come to mind like to try and solve a problem, complain about a problem, stretch an OCI as far as they can, want to try to get their vehicle to last forever, find the best oil, etc. Bottom line, with tools available like used oil analysis if someone really is concerned about their vehicle they should get their own data and use that to determine their OCI. If data points them in the direction of 10K or a 20K OCI they'll be going about it the right way.
“But it’s so much more fun being under the car than driving it!”Exactly. He said the records were only as far back as ~50(?)K? OP said 10k...more like 7.5k..."evidence"
I watched the referenced Land Rover vid when released, I too didn't/don't believe it was changed at 10k intervals as claimed. Evidence in that one 'very' weak it was even done at 10k mi. But, the guy had it in his head it was 10k miles and was going with that to sell the video point, imo.
Here, evidence 'appears' to be a bit more, but the lease start skews that and leaves open wide latitude to that, imo, I'm also going to speculate conventional/syn blend used. I think that considering that the engine, eg turbo, gdi and type driving eg, lots of short tripping, big factors too, So, while I think a good idea to consider all the factors when choosing an oci, I don't believe this vid 'proves' his oci point. In other words, taking the two vids togather, imo some 'confirmation bias' going on. My.02
Here, evidence 'appears' to be a bit more, but the lease start skews that and leaves open wide latitude to that, imo, I'm also going to speculate conventional/syn blend used. I think that considering that the engine, eg turbo, gdi and type driving eg, lots of short tripping, big factors too, So, while I think a good idea to consider all the factors when choosing an oci, I don't believe this vid 'proves' his oci point. In other words, taking the two vids togather, imo some 'confirmation bias' going on. My.02
Yes it depends on many things, but the industry is going to 10K+ OCI. Most of the population is simply going to follow the recommendation using whatever bulk their servicer has. This might not end well for many of them.
I don't have time nor interest in doing a whole bunch of UOA either. I would rather just throw out the "good" oil and be sure. If I were paying someone to do it or had one that was difficult to change, I might do something different.
I don't have time nor interest in doing a whole bunch of UOA either. I would rather just throw out the "good" oil and be sure. If I were paying someone to do it or had one that was difficult to change, I might do something different.
Fake news
Ya. Chum for those who lack critical thinking skills because it's just too hard.
Don’t know much about the 2.0l turbo 4 in the Edge, but the 2.3l turbo we have in the MKC is typically hard on oil. Lots of soot, fuel dilution..etc. I choose to keep the oci around 5k so this doesn’t happen to mine…. Another vote for being a good consumer and adjusting your maintenance routine to fit accordingly
But if they only used amsoil the inside, and the outside of that car would be cleaner.,,,
- Status
Similar threads
