Moral claims about American content/R&D vs. Non

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Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I remember walking through a Chrysler engine plant in SE Michigan back in the early 80s. I saw much of the very expensive production tooling was made overseas (e.g., Germany). This was during the heyday of Iacocca's "Buy American" campaign. I thought it was rather two-faced for a company to tell us to buy American when they don't practice what they preach.


Most of the best precision machining stuff is made in Germany or Switzerland. I don't see how Americans, working in an American factory building cars for Americans for a company with (at the time) American roots but happen to be using German tools is two-faced?


Really? If you buy a German car a UAW worker will tell you that you are unpatriotic.
 
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I remember walking through a Chrysler engine plant in SE Michigan back in the early 80s. I saw much of the very expensive production tooling was made overseas (e.g., Germany). This was during the heyday of Iacocca's "Buy American" campaign. I thought it was rather two-faced for a company to tell us to buy American when they don't practice what they preach.


Most of the best precision machining stuff is made in Germany or Switzerland. I don't see how Americans, working in an American factory building cars for Americans for a company with (at the time) American roots but happen to be using German tools is two-faced?


Really? If you buy a German car a UAW worker will tell you that you are unpatriotic.


I'm not talking about cars. Simply tools that might be used to produce those pieces that make up a car.
 
Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
The Japanese use the worst steel on their car bodies,rust out worse the domestic cars.I see them going down the road,any Japanese car with the worst rust spots.Any thing Foriegn,you pay more for repairs including the parts.Do this,price a part for a domestic and a foriegn car.The price of the part for the domestic will be cheaper.With Kias,the insurance is very high on them.Japanese cars have electrical problems which are very expensive.My father went to a seminar on car electrical systems by Auto Value parts stores and the instructor said this.One sensor goes bad on a Honda goes bad,the ECM is toast.Plus Honda loves using vacuum hoses,one intake manifold uses 50 vacuum hose fittings.One wrecking yard in my area makes sure they are still hooked up on the intake manifold or the customer will not buy it.Another yard in my area,Economy Auto parts in Muskegon,Mi does get calls for the Corolla engines and Jimmy the owner wishes he had lot of those selling them for $1,500.00 each.They are hard to get.The automatic transmissions do fall out of them too,my father spoke to another dealer and this other used car dealer said this.The 3.0 v6s in the Toyotas mini truck cannot keep waterpumps and head gaskets in them and this was said on Extreme 4x4.They had one on the show with a bad 3.0,still have it and converted the drivetrian to a Chevy drivetrain.


Best post of this thread!
crackmeup2.gif


Wait!

Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
It was a 4.3 under the hood of the Trooper I saw and it did say on the emissions label.There is another thing Toyota loves to do,screw up any motorsport and they did it to Nascar: Bought themselves in and buying out teams.The Tundras get the worst fuel mileage even with the v6.In my local paper in about a year ago,there were to dealership claiming the cars got the best fuel mileage: a Honda dealership and a GM dealership.The GM vehicles were better by 3 MPGs.I have worked on a few imports,all their stuff is backwards and the last one was a Hyundai which was a clutch job done over again,someone else's screw up.The clutch operates differantly.Domestic vehicles are easier to work on.


No this one is better...
thumbsup2.gif


OMG!
smirk2.gif


Where do we start???? Rust.. Pay more for parts.. NASCAR.. backwards stuff...

Nevermind.. He would not understand....

Bill

PS: Maybe his Father's friend at Auto Value could tell his buddy at the wreaking yard Jimmy who then could tell another dealer who could tell Extreme 4X4 to have the info on their show...
27.gif


PPS:

Ok let's get real....

2005 Chevy Cobalt vs 2005 Toyota Corolla

Rear drum. $34 $23
Caliper $49 $41
Rotor $41 $21
Rear Bearing $93 $96
Belt $15 $13
CV half shaft $58 $50
Water Pump $53 $46
WP Gasket $9 $2
Clutch kit $525 $181

Rock auto prices (and I did not round them up or down, just whole amounts)

Yep, those "imports" have expensive parts....
grin2.gif


I'm getting way too old for the rest of his "post" to address...
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
One intake mainfold uses 50 vacuum hose fittings, from when, 1980?

Instead of living life second and third hand, and two decades ago. Get out and take a look at these cars you keep telling us about after hearing from your dad.

Thank you!
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
The Japanese use the worst steel on their car bodies,rust out worse the domestic cars.I see them going down the road,any Japanese car with the worst rust spots.Any thing Foriegn,you pay more for repairs including the parts.Do this,price a part for a domestic and a foriegn car.The price of the part for the domestic will be cheaper.With Kias,the insurance is very high on them.Japanese cars have electrical problems which are very expensive.My father went to a seminar on car electrical systems by Auto Value parts stores and the instructor said this.One sensor goes bad on a Honda goes bad,the ECM is toast.Plus Honda loves using vacuum hoses,one intake manifold uses 50 vacuum hose fittings.One wrecking yard in my area makes sure they are still hooked up on the intake manifold or the customer will not buy it.Another yard in my area,Economy Auto parts in Muskegon,Mi does get calls for the Corolla engines and Jimmy the owner wishes he had lot of those selling them for $1,500.00 each.They are hard to get.The automatic transmissions do fall out of them too,my father spoke to another dealer and this other used car dealer said this.The 3.0 v6s in the Toyotas mini truck cannot keep waterpumps and head gaskets in them and this was said on Extreme 4x4.They had one on the show with a bad 3.0,still have it and converted the drivetrian to a Chevy drivetrain.


Best post of this thread!
crackmeup2.gif


Wait!

Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
It was a 4.3 under the hood of the Trooper I saw and it did say on the emissions label.There is another thing Toyota loves to do,screw up any motorsport and they did it to Nascar: Bought themselves in and buying out teams.The Tundras get the worst fuel mileage even with the v6.In my local paper in about a year ago,there were to dealership claiming the cars got the best fuel mileage: a Honda dealership and a GM dealership.The GM vehicles were better by 3 MPGs.I have worked on a few imports,all their stuff is backwards and the last one was a Hyundai which was a clutch job done over again,someone else's screw up.The clutch operates differantly.Domestic vehicles are easier to work on.


No this one is better...
thumbsup2.gif


OMG!
smirk2.gif


Where do we start???? Rust.. Pay more for parts.. NASCAR.. backwards stuff...

Nevermind.. He would not understand....

Bill

PS: Maybe his Father's friend at Auto Value could tell his buddy at the wreaking yard Jimmy who then could tell another dealer who could tell Extreme 4X4 to have the info on their show...
27.gif


PPS:

Ok let's get real....

2005 Chevy Cobalt vs 2005 Toyota Corolla

Rear drum. $34 $23
Caliper $49 $41
Rotor $41 $21
Rear Bearing $93 $96
Belt $15 $13
CV half shaft $58 $50
Water Pump $53 $46
WP Gasket $9 $2
Clutch kit $525 $181

Rock auto prices (and I did not round them up or down, just whole amounts)

Yep, those "imports" have expensive parts....
grin2.gif


I'm getting way too old for the rest of his "post" to address...


Oh Bill, is this your first time reading his posts? Because you forgot his "Jasper Rep" as well! LMAO!

Previous threads with his "contributions" have been interesting to say the least......
 
On most modern cars today, there is very little if nothing attached to the Vacuum of the engine via Vacuum lines as 99% of it is electronic now which provides better control.
 
Originally Posted By: StevieC
On most modern cars today, there is very little if nothing attached to the Vacuum of the engine via Vacuum lines as 99% of it is electronic now which provides better control.


PCV and carbon canister come to mind immediately. And the brake booster on vehicles with vacuum assisted brakes (my Expedition for example).
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: StevieC
On most modern cars today, there is very little if nothing attached to the Vacuum of the engine via Vacuum lines as 99% of it is electronic now which provides better control.


PCV and carbon canister come to mind immediately. And the brake booster on vehicles with vacuum assisted brakes (my Expedition for example).


That would be in the 1% compared to all the stuff they used to run on vacuum back in the days. My dad had a convertible that was Vacuum driven.
shocked2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I actually posted some information about content using the link cousincletus gave us a while back.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/1401989/

Seems the Camry has more domestic content at 70% than the Ford Fusion at 40%.

What many don't realize is the Corolla is built in a UAW plant. Yes, that's right, the NUMMI plant in Freemont, CA uses UAW labor.

So the UAW is building Corollas and Tundras.


I still wouldn't buy either, because the domestic content isn't high enough. I have an Impala with 90%.


To me, the Impala, manufactured in Canada, is just as much of an import as a Ford Fusion made in Mexico. I'd as soon have a car made in Japan, or, preferaby, a Japanese car made in the US with US workers getting the paychecks.

It I was worried about where the profits of Toyota and Honda go, I would have my stockbroker by me some of their stock.


The Impala is not considered an import. Canadian parts are counted towards the domestic parts content, Mexican parts are considered imported. Canadians buy a lot of American cars, Japan does not. Canada has a similar standard of living and environmental laws as we have, Mexico does not.
 
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I actually posted some information about content using the link cousincletus gave us a while back.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/1401989/

Seems the Camry has more domestic content at 70% than the Ford Fusion at 40%.

What many don't realize is the Corolla is built in a UAW plant. Yes, that's right, the NUMMI plant in Freemont, CA uses UAW labor.

So the UAW is building Corollas and Tundras.


I still wouldn't buy either, because the domestic content isn't high enough. I have an Impala with 90%.


To me, the Impala, manufactured in Canada, is just as much of an import as a Ford Fusion made in Mexico. I'd as soon have a car made in Japan, or, preferaby, a Japanese car made in the US with US workers getting the paychecks.

It I was worried about where the profits of Toyota and Honda go, I would have my stockbroker by me some of their stock.


The Impala is not considered an import. Canadian parts are counted towards the domestic parts content, Mexican parts are considered imported. Canadians buy a lot of American cars, Japan does not. Canada has a similar standard of living and environmental laws as we have, Mexico does not.


Just because some government agency considers Canada to be part of the US does not mean that I have to, and I certainly do not. It is a foreign country, same as Mexico or Japan. How many car plants does Canada have in the US? How many car plants does Japan have in the US? How much money does Canadian production put in the pockets of US workers? Compare this to the millions or billions of dollars paid to US workers by Japanese companies.
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic


I do recall seeing Honda engines with a mile's worth of vacuum hoses, but those were Honda engines from the 80s era.


They did, at least, number each hose, if I recall correctly. One that I looked at went at least to 22.
 
Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Do you guys actually believe in the posted domestic content?


I believe it's the best information available to the public. Sometimes you just have to go with the information you have rather than the information you wish you had.

It's good enough for me and has some effect on my car buying.


What is the definition of domestic? As cousin pointed out, Canada is considered domestic. With politics, definitions seem to get changed.
 
Yeah...domestic content...think about this:

GM Employment 1979 618,000
GM Employment 2009 88,000

So the US government is spending $50billion to save 88,000 jobs?
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I remember walking through a Chrysler engine plant in SE Michigan back in the early 80s. I saw much of the very expensive production tooling was made overseas (e.g., Germany). This was during the heyday of Iacocca's "Buy American" campaign. I thought it was rather two-faced for a company to tell us to buy American when they don't practice what they preach.


Most of the best precision machining stuff is made in Germany or Switzerland. I don't see how Americans, working in an American factory building cars for Americans for a company with (at the time) American roots but happen to be using German tools is two-faced?

Well, some people consider their cars mere tools for their trade. It gets them from Point A to Point B so they can get to work and do the things that they need to do. If a foreign nameplate does this job better than an American nameplate, then where's the problem? I still think it's two-faced.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
I'll bet if you worked for Ford or GM you would have a different view. Not that non Americans are lesser human beings, but we don't want to see our nation follow the lead of others down the third world path.
That's just one reason our country is worth fighting for.

Look at what is going on in this country. We are a well on the road to being a third world country. It is the new world order.
 
Whats left of the middle class and the poor will become poorer as the middle class is completely wiped out and the rich take the reigns...

As if 1% holding 99% of the wealth isn't enough...
smirk2.gif
 
NAFTA is nothing but another tool for them to terraform the world into a rich owning slaves again. They just don't call is slavery because it upsets the masses so they do it through capitalism and consumerism.

Scary world but true.
smirk2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 1999nick


To me, the Impala, manufactured in Canada, is just as much of an import as a Ford Fusion made in Mexico.


Exactly- NEITHER one is an import at all.
grin2.gif
 
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