This was about 2000 and up,Honda using 50 vacuum hoses.Izuzu troopers did have Chevy 4.3s under the hood
Moral claims about American content/R&D vs. Non
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Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
This was about 2000 and up,Honda using 50 vacuum hoses.Izuzu troopers did have Chevy 4.3s under the hood
I was under the hood of a Honda 3.0L V6 recently. This particular engine is used in the 98-02 Accords. And no, I did not see 50 vacuum hoses under there.
I do recall seeing Honda engines with a mile's worth of vacuum hoses, but those were Honda engines from the 80s era.
This was about 2000 and up,Honda using 50 vacuum hoses.Izuzu troopers did have Chevy 4.3s under the hood
I was under the hood of a Honda 3.0L V6 recently. This particular engine is used in the 98-02 Accords. And no, I did not see 50 vacuum hoses under there.
I do recall seeing Honda engines with a mile's worth of vacuum hoses, but those were Honda engines from the 80s era.
maybe he just saw it IN 2000, but it was actually a 1983 model year car.
Didn't the Trooper have the GM 60 degree 2.8?
You've touched on a topic with loads and loads of different viewpoints. In what has increasingly become a globalised world, nothing seems to be made 100% in one country. For instance, I took my Nokia phone in for repair the other day, which is "made in Finland". When the technician took it apart, it had Samsung chips inside made in Korea, plastic outer casing made in China, a battery made in Hungary, a Zeiss camera lens made in Germany and a carry case made in Turkey. So is this phone technically "made" in Finland or "assembled" in Finland? Nokia is a company of Finnish origin, but seems to be benefiting widely from aspects such as advanced logistics, JIT and economies of scale which is what it's all about.
Many companies are in bed with each other because they mutually benefit from it. So long as it fits the bill, they could care less. Bosch, for instance, supply parts not only to BMW, but Ford and Mitsubishi as well. When my friend's '99 540i had a faulty ABS unit, made by Bosch, we ended up buying the same part from the Mitsubishi dealer for a substantial saving. Both companies care more about the savings such standardisation offers, rather than where the part was assembled, or the nationality of the employees to put it together. Then you have competitors cooperating, such as a previous example of GM and Toyota, etc. My head's started to hurt considering all the aspects of it.
Many companies are in bed with each other because they mutually benefit from it. So long as it fits the bill, they could care less. Bosch, for instance, supply parts not only to BMW, but Ford and Mitsubishi as well. When my friend's '99 540i had a faulty ABS unit, made by Bosch, we ended up buying the same part from the Mitsubishi dealer for a substantial saving. Both companies care more about the savings such standardisation offers, rather than where the part was assembled, or the nationality of the employees to put it together. Then you have competitors cooperating, such as a previous example of GM and Toyota, etc. My head's started to hurt considering all the aspects of it.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I actually posted some information about content using the link cousincletus gave us a while back.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1401989#Post1401989
Seems the Camry has more domestic content at 70% than the Ford Fusion at 40%.
What many don't realize is the Corolla is built in a UAW plant. Yes, that's right, the NUMMI plant in Freemont, CA uses UAW labor.
So the UAW is building Corollas and Tundras.
I still wouldn't buy either, because the domestic content isn't high enough. I have an Impala with 90%.
I actually posted some information about content using the link cousincletus gave us a while back.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1401989#Post1401989
Seems the Camry has more domestic content at 70% than the Ford Fusion at 40%.
What many don't realize is the Corolla is built in a UAW plant. Yes, that's right, the NUMMI plant in Freemont, CA uses UAW labor.
So the UAW is building Corollas and Tundras.
I still wouldn't buy either, because the domestic content isn't high enough. I have an Impala with 90%.
Kestas
Staff member
I remember walking through a Chrysler engine plant in SE Michigan back in the early 80s. I saw much of the very expensive production tooling was made overseas (e.g., Germany). This was during the heyday of Iacocca's "Buy American" campaign. I thought it was rather two-faced for a company to tell us to buy American when they don't practice what they preach.
It was a 4.3 under the hood of the Trooper I saw and it did say on the emissions label.There is another thing Toyota loves to do,screw up any motorsport and they did it to Nascar: Bought themselves in and buying out teams.The Tundras get the worst fuel mileage even with the v6.In my local paper in about a year ago,there were to dealership claiming the cars got the best fuel mileage: a Honda dealership and a GM dealership.The GM vehicles were better by 3 MPGs.I have worked on a few imports,all their stuff is backwards and the last one was a Hyundai which was a clutch job done over again,someone else's screw up.The clutch operates differantly.Domestic vehicles are easier to work on.
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I did not see 50 vacuum hoses under there.
I seem to recall Ford having a yen for real complex vacuum systems. I don't know if they ever stopped.
I did not see 50 vacuum hoses under there.
I seem to recall Ford having a yen for real complex vacuum systems. I don't know if they ever stopped.
Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
Domestic vehicles are easier to work on.
you obviously have never worked on a LT1 Camaro.
Domestic vehicles are easier to work on.
you obviously have never worked on a LT1 Camaro.
Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
Domestic vehicles are easier to work on.
That's a good one! I'm still rolling on the floor about this one!
My dad would like you to change the rear plugs on his 2002 Windstar when you get a chance. It's only a 4 hour job involving taking half the van a part!
Domestic vehicles are easier to work on.
My dad would like you to change the rear plugs on his 2002 Windstar when you get a chance. It's only a 4 hour job involving taking half the van a part!
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Originally Posted By: Kestas
I remember walking through a Chrysler engine plant in SE Michigan back in the early 80s. I saw much of the very expensive production tooling was made overseas (e.g., Germany). This was during the heyday of Iacocca's "Buy American" campaign. I thought it was rather two-faced for a company to tell us to buy American when they don't practice what they preach.
Most of the best precision machining stuff is made in Germany or Switzerland. I don't see how Americans, working in an American factory building cars for Americans for a company with (at the time) American roots but happen to be using German tools is two-faced?
I remember walking through a Chrysler engine plant in SE Michigan back in the early 80s. I saw much of the very expensive production tooling was made overseas (e.g., Germany). This was during the heyday of Iacocca's "Buy American" campaign. I thought it was rather two-faced for a company to tell us to buy American when they don't practice what they preach.
Most of the best precision machining stuff is made in Germany or Switzerland. I don't see how Americans, working in an American factory building cars for Americans for a company with (at the time) American roots but happen to be using German tools is two-faced?
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
Domestic vehicles are easier to work on.
That's a good one! I'm still rolling on the floor about this one!
My dad would like you to change the rear plugs on his 2002 Windstar when you get a chance. It's only a 4 hour job involving taking half the van a part!
Exactly. I recently changed the thermostat on my Chevy Trailblazer. You have to remove the alternator. There is an A/C line that runs right next to the bottom alternator bolt. Real pain to get out. It was about a 4 hour job. Also, there is no drain plug on the radiator - you have to remove the lower hose.
A couple of months later I drained the OEM coolant of my wife's Camry (I4 engine). Piece of cake. The drain plug can easily be reached standing in front of the vehicle, and the upper radiator hose can easily be removed if needed.
In all fairness I have seen some "foreign" vehicles that are a pain in the butt to work on. But so are a lot of "American" vehicles.
My point is - every car is different. You can't say all cars from one maker are easier to work on than cars from another maker. For example, I have an older Ford V6 that is also a pain to change the thermostat (though not as bad as the Trailblazer). About a 1 1/2 hour job. Two of the 3 screws for the thermostat housing you basically can't see.
On the other hand my 2004 Ford 4.6 V8 is EASY! Thermostat housing right on the top of the engine at the front. About 15 minutes max.
Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
Domestic vehicles are easier to work on.
My dad would like you to change the rear plugs on his 2002 Windstar when you get a chance. It's only a 4 hour job involving taking half the van a part!
Exactly. I recently changed the thermostat on my Chevy Trailblazer. You have to remove the alternator. There is an A/C line that runs right next to the bottom alternator bolt. Real pain to get out. It was about a 4 hour job. Also, there is no drain plug on the radiator - you have to remove the lower hose.
A couple of months later I drained the OEM coolant of my wife's Camry (I4 engine). Piece of cake. The drain plug can easily be reached standing in front of the vehicle, and the upper radiator hose can easily be removed if needed.
In all fairness I have seen some "foreign" vehicles that are a pain in the butt to work on. But so are a lot of "American" vehicles.
My point is - every car is different. You can't say all cars from one maker are easier to work on than cars from another maker. For example, I have an older Ford V6 that is also a pain to change the thermostat (though not as bad as the Trailblazer). About a 1 1/2 hour job. Two of the 3 screws for the thermostat housing you basically can't see.
On the other hand my 2004 Ford 4.6 V8 is EASY! Thermostat housing right on the top of the engine at the front. About 15 minutes max.
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There is no doubt that the designers make it harder to work on because they want to encourage dealer servicing only... Why else would the spark plugs in the rear bank of cylinders be placed under my plenium / throttle body when the could have put this stuff in the center of the engine where nothing is.
The difference I find is that while both "domestic" and "foreign" makes are harder to work on these days, I still find the "foreign" makers much much easier to work on than the domestics.
The difference I find is that while both "domestic" and "foreign" makes are harder to work on these days, I still find the "foreign" makers much much easier to work on than the domestics.
Well, to be technical, my car was built in Spartanberg, South Carolina.
Way back in 1976, I wanted a Triumph Spitfire. A friend struck the attitude "You buy a foreign car you put 10 Americans out of work." To which I replied "If those 10 Americans don't build the car I want, they deserve it."
Way back in 1976, I wanted a Triumph Spitfire. A friend struck the attitude "You buy a foreign car you put 10 Americans out of work." To which I replied "If those 10 Americans don't build the car I want, they deserve it."
Originally Posted By: StevieC
The difference I find is that while both "domestic" and "foreign" makes are harder to work on these days, I still find the "foreign" makers much much easier to work on than the domestics.
Changing the sparkplugs on the Camaro 3.8 was such a pain I had the mechanic do it. On the Z4, it was sooooo easy. (Audience: "How easy was it?")
But on the other side of the coin, my old '72 Javelin I6 was pretty easy. Pop the hood, the engine was right there. Could even see ground on either side.
The difference I find is that while both "domestic" and "foreign" makes are harder to work on these days, I still find the "foreign" makers much much easier to work on than the domestics.
Changing the sparkplugs on the Camaro 3.8 was such a pain I had the mechanic do it. On the Z4, it was sooooo easy. (Audience: "How easy was it?")
But on the other side of the coin, my old '72 Javelin I6 was pretty easy. Pop the hood, the engine was right there. Could even see ground on either side.
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Originally Posted By: cousincletus
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I actually posted some information about content using the link cousincletus gave us a while back.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1401989#Post1401989
Seems the Camry has more domestic content at 70% than the Ford Fusion at 40%.
What many don't realize is the Corolla is built in a UAW plant. Yes, that's right, the NUMMI plant in Freemont, CA uses UAW labor.
So the UAW is building Corollas and Tundras.
I still wouldn't buy either, because the domestic content isn't high enough. I have an Impala with 90%.
To me, the Impala, manufactured in Canada, is just as much of an import as a Ford Fusion made in Mexico. I'd as soon have a car made in Japan, or, preferaby, a Japanese car made in the US with US workers getting the paychecks.
It I was worried about where the profits of Toyota and Honda go, I would have my stockbroker by me some of their stock.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I actually posted some information about content using the link cousincletus gave us a while back.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1401989#Post1401989
Seems the Camry has more domestic content at 70% than the Ford Fusion at 40%.
What many don't realize is the Corolla is built in a UAW plant. Yes, that's right, the NUMMI plant in Freemont, CA uses UAW labor.
So the UAW is building Corollas and Tundras.
I still wouldn't buy either, because the domestic content isn't high enough. I have an Impala with 90%.
To me, the Impala, manufactured in Canada, is just as much of an import as a Ford Fusion made in Mexico. I'd as soon have a car made in Japan, or, preferaby, a Japanese car made in the US with US workers getting the paychecks.
It I was worried about where the profits of Toyota and Honda go, I would have my stockbroker by me some of their stock.
Originally Posted By: AcuraTech
The real problem is that US citizens get all upset about the loss of good jobs in the USA. Yet they continue to support jokers like GM and Wal-Mart, while both companies have caused hundreds of thousands of US jobs to migrate off-shore in the past 30 years.
You like GM and Chrysler? How many US jobs have they added in the past 30 years? The number is insanely negative, and getting more negative by the day. If you don't like Honda and Toyota because you think they take away US jobs, you're a fool. Both companies have added hundreds of thousands of US jobs in the past 30 years.
Cars are a moot point. They have been, and will continue to be assembled in the USA. The real problem is all the cheap garbage people demand at Wal-Mart, which drives away US assembly jobs. For every new Wal-Mart shopper, one more US blue collar job is eliminated. People need to get off the domestic/foreign car bull and start looking at the REAL problems.
+1 This is true...except for the walmart bash. Walmart is only a retailer. They don't manufacture anything so the analogy doesn't work. I bought QTP this year there and if there was no WM it would have been sold by another retailer.
The whole "Buy American" hype is just that...hype by the UAW who is robbing the GM bondholders of their hard earned invested money with the help of the US government.
The real problem is that US citizens get all upset about the loss of good jobs in the USA. Yet they continue to support jokers like GM and Wal-Mart, while both companies have caused hundreds of thousands of US jobs to migrate off-shore in the past 30 years.
You like GM and Chrysler? How many US jobs have they added in the past 30 years? The number is insanely negative, and getting more negative by the day. If you don't like Honda and Toyota because you think they take away US jobs, you're a fool. Both companies have added hundreds of thousands of US jobs in the past 30 years.
Cars are a moot point. They have been, and will continue to be assembled in the USA. The real problem is all the cheap garbage people demand at Wal-Mart, which drives away US assembly jobs. For every new Wal-Mart shopper, one more US blue collar job is eliminated. People need to get off the domestic/foreign car bull and start looking at the REAL problems.
+1 This is true...except for the walmart bash. Walmart is only a retailer. They don't manufacture anything so the analogy doesn't work. I bought QTP this year there and if there was no WM it would have been sold by another retailer.
The whole "Buy American" hype is just that...hype by the UAW who is robbing the GM bondholders of their hard earned invested money with the help of the US government.
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