Molybdenum increases gas mileage?

[bbhero]

Well I have read that molybdenum is being used to increase gas mileage. Quaker State had a press release stating this claim when they reformulated their full synthetic oil. It has greater than 240 ppm of moly in the last two PQIA test.
So, is this increase in mpg really possible in real world driving? I'm curious what everyone thinks about this.

 

[Prune_Juice]

I think that if it reduces friction inside the engine then it could be more efficient and possibly aid better gas mileage, yes.

Car, state of tune, tires, driving style.. Matter as well..

 

[UltrafanUK]

Yes BUT it's a very small increase. If you are using a conventional oil that lacks Moly and change to a genuine German standard G4 or GTL based engine oil that contains Moly, it might just be possible to detect a slight change in MPG, BUT it will be less than using an 0w20 rather than a 5w30.
Most 0 or 5w20 oils already contain enough Moly to offset the potential negative effects of using thin oil when it's hot or the engine is under a heavy load.

How much Moly is enough relates to which form and type of Mo is involved. Too much of something is not always the best answer, as it can interfere with the other additives and nothing causes a bigger drop in MPG than a serious engine problem.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Well I have read that molybdenum is being used to increase gas mileage. Quaker State had a press release stating this claim when they reformulated their full synthetic oil. It has greater than 240 ppm of moly in the last two PQIA test.
So, is this increase in mpg really possible in real world driving? I'm curious what everyone thinks about this.


bbhero,
it's all in the context, and that's where sound bites really don't work.

When in fully hydrodynamic lubrication, the "lift" of the oil keeps things apart...but it causes "drag" and wastes energy (and therefore economy).

Reduce the viscosity to reduce the "drag", and you reduce the "lift", and things start to rub, and friction goes up.

It's the classical Stri(e)beck curve.

However, if you introduce certain additives, you can reduce the friction when the parts touch, and THAT's where molybdenum additives CAN improve mileage.

They ALLOW a lower "lift", by reducing the friction when parts touch.

And that reduces wasted power...and improves economy.

 

[bbhero]

Well that makes a lot of sense to me. I can see where the Stri(e)beck curve fits in this as well.

 

[UltrafanUK]

Don't forget that using real good box oils or fluids that are a tad thinner than normal will also increase MPG.
My car is approved for both 75w80 and 75w90 gearbox oils (Both Liqui Moly FS), so I use the 75w90 due to hot and heavy towing, BUT I also add one tube of LM box oil additive for extra protection and MPG.

 

[OneEyeJack]

...and then you could end up going just a bit faster, hit a red light and lose all the gains previously realized and be right back where you started. Or it could be a colder day, more efficient engine operation because of cooler air plus not running the a/c but having more drag because of the denser air and the extra drag by having the window down and you're right back where you started.

Anything that might/could increase mileage by some small amount has got to be a difficult problem to sort out. And then you could just put more air in your tires and pay more attention to your driving and do even better with the mileage improvements to say nothing of not getting that ticket for a traffic violation.

 

[Boss302fan]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Well I have read that molybdenum is being used to increase gas mileage. Quaker State had a press release stating this claim when they reformulated their full synthetic oil. It has greater than 240 ppm of moly in the last two PQIA test.
So, is this increase in mpg really possible in real world driving? I'm curious what everyone thinks about this.


I could be wrong but I thought PYB has more Moly that that...

 

[Donald]

If you were already using quality synthetic you would not notice additional molly.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I thought high moly laden oils did not pass teost 33 and were given an exemption only for 0w20 non-dexos.

Some new formulation come along?

 

[bbhero]

I agree with you on that point Donald. I really don't believe there will be any discernible difference.

Oneyejack I agree with what you stated as well. Many others factors can influence gas mileage that have nothing to do with what's in the crankcase.

For the record... I didn't say I believe this claim was accurate or true. I don't believe it could be all that much IF it were true. Say like 0.1-0.2 mpg and may well be less than that. The only way to prove that miniscule difference being a extremely tightly controlled research environment. I am just curious as to what everyone thinks about it.

 

[bbhero]

Actually Boss302fan the PYB and QSUD are very close in molybdenum. Pretty much a dead heat well within error bars. Given normal batch variation either one could have a very small amount more than the other.

 

[123Saab]

Just out of curiosity, Is there any moly in the Formula Shell 5w-30 that I use in my 4.0 Ford Ranger?

 

[DBMaster]

I've used both Mazda's 0W-20 oil with a heavy dose of moly and Mobil 1 AFE and EP with far less. I have seen no discernible difference in mpg's, either.

 

[bbhero]

Yeah 123saab there is a decent amount of molybdenum in Formula Shell. Last PQIA test result was 159 ppm. It has a similar amount ofoly and boron like Quaker State conventional.

 

[Gene K]

Moly = Increased fuel mileage
High Moly = Increased deposits

 

[bbhero]

Well that may be true... but here's a strong counter point to that.. Quaker State Ultimate Durability is HTO-06 approved. That's a specification for turbos and it is tested on used oil. This specification is about the oil not creating a lot of deposits in turbo cars. So evidently QSUD doesn't have too much molybdenum.

 

[123Saab]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Yeah 123saab there is a decent amount of molybdenum in Formula Shell. Last PQIA test result was 159 ppm. It has a similar amount ofoly and boron like Quaker State conventional.


Nice. I like the FS 5w30 that I can pick up at Home Depot.

$12.97 for 5 qts.

 

[aquariuscsm]

High moly oils also run really smooth and quiet in anything you run them in. I wonder if this is what gives Pennzoil it's legendary smooth and quiet status?

 

[Gene K]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Well that may be true... but here's a strong counter point to that.. Quaker State Ultimate Durability is HTO-06 approved. That's a specification for turbos and it is tested on used oil. This specification is about the oil not creating a lot of deposits in turbo cars. So evidently QSUD doesn't have too much molybdenum.


Its a relative thing. If use a basestock, carrier (ester), correct VII and pour point depressants you can increase moly. Their is an article somewhere (that I can't find right now) on how much each of different types add and subtract on the TEOST.

Platinum sails through the TEOST with so much margin I'm sure they had room to bump up the moly in QSUD.

My point was everything you add to a fully formulated oil has consequences some desirable and some not so much.

We should look at the end result.

My guess is QSUD would do better in my Supercharged Mustang. Platinum would do better in my GDI Turbo Truck of course I doubt SOPUS will release the data to lead to a truly informed decision.