Molybdenum, Cam wear and Hemi tick

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Burla

I misplaced a message you had earlier....my 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 ticks upon startup and goes away. Jeep calls for 5w-20.

If I went to Redline, should I stay with that weight or try 5w-30. I do have the MDS.
 
I can't say with any certainty as I am thinking about one individual and he didn't try 5w30, so unless he tries 5w30 it would be a long time before I can answer that. And even if I did, it might only be one guys engine. I can say that 5w20 was the first redline oil I tried and that killed my tick, but the 10w30 left a minor tick in my truck. The reason why I went to 5w30 to be honest, I was talked into it by all the other guys having success with it. They had tried 5w20 and 0w30 redline and did not have the success as 5w30, so going along with the program I went to 5w30, but I personally had the same success with 5w20 redline. That was only one guys success, whereas the 5w20 failed to kill the tick in other engines, those engines were noticeable better, but still had warm idle tick. The 6.4 is a newer engine and a much smaller group of guys owning them, it may be another 5 years before we have any kind of answers. So when recommending something, I say try what was successful i most engines because if you try 5w20 and it fails to ill your tick you may give up on it, as it costs a fair amount to experiment. Also, over half the guys including myself it can take anywhere from 500 to 1200 miles to kill the tick. And then one day you start your truck and it's gone, that is why the working theory it is the moly and it needed time to plate. Maybe it is, maybe it's something else, but like I said half of the engines that killed took took time, the other half were quiet right away, and roughly didn't work 20% of the time. The other gentlemen that posted his historical battle with hemi tick and lubrication with video's best encompasses the many experiences on the board. Only now with the many long term uoa's are we starting to see the results. We have 2 or 3 more uoa's that will drop into the long term use category coming within 6 mos. It takes a long time to gather the info, and very likely it will have zero effect on the crowd around here that throws shade on any info including long term uoa's, but regardless we are doing this for ourselves and to help guys in the future, so we plow throw past the noise. We have similar noise on our own forum, even though those guys have seen time and time again another member silence their tick, week in week out. Maybe more random guys from bob's will also have success come out from nowhere and you will understand what we all know.
 
Originally Posted by dawgn86
Burla

I misplaced a message you had earlier....my 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 ticks upon startup and goes away. Jeep calls for 5w-20.

If I went to Redline, should I stay with that weight or try 5w-30. I do have the MDS.


So what I can tel you is this, about 90% of our board have the hemi's with mds, excluding guys with Cummins and eco diesels. We discuss this a lot due to the problems we are having and we are also aware of the other hemi board that documents the numbers of cam fails. We have a poll were just under 1/2 of the respondents on our board use 30 weight or thicker with mds that calls for twenty weight w/o issue. Literally every guy in our hemi tick crowd uses 5w30 with the mds w.o issue, myself I have used it with my mds nearly 5 years w/o issue. Most guys in the oil section use 5w30 or higher, some mix to get 35 weight, some use 0w40 in the mds engine w/o issue. I was one of the last hold outs, I was worried due to what fca said. I don't worry anymore, I think the gov't is up their tail on oil weights and we are being lied to. I can't tell you what to do, but I tell you what we do, check your PM I will send you some stuff. Make sure you do this forum a favor and report back in this thread after the oil have 1,000 miles on it agreed? either way good or bad just be honest. also, are you sure it isn't exhaust bolts? Does the symptoms change at all after an oil change?
 
The number on the poll was 55 users use 20 weight oil in the mds, 51 used heavier oil 30 weight and up, one guy said he said a CEL but no follow up and repeated pm's and he didn't participate in the forum after that. I think it was a spoof poster or a mistake vote, but it is what it is, he only has 8 posts. We have guys run 30 weight and higher that have participated for 5 plus years without issue, but I keep it 100 on every post so you can judge for yourself. It isn't my choice for someone to use something different then what the manu asks for, it is your equipment and your decision.
 
I have a 2014 Ram 1500 with 5.7 and am orginal owner. I pulled factory oil at 3,000 and put in Amsoil SS 5w20. Ran that to 10,000 on odometer. I disabled MDS with Diablo tuner Than put in Redline 5w-20. I ran that until odometer read 19,000. Sent in for UOA and Blackstone said it looked great and could of gone little longer. TBN was at 2.9 still. I began to read up and found Burla on forums and liked what I was reading. I decided to use redline 5w-30 and have been using that since. I'm at 84,000 now. I've had nothing but a smooth as silk running engine. I got tickets but it was exhaust manifold bolts. I replaced with BBK ceramic shorty headers. Only true fix in my opinion for exhaust bolt issue. I've had reduced engine bay temps and very Happy with them. I've been very interested in trying the Driven LS30 oil but have not done it. Has anyone used this oil and what did they think? I don't mean to change subject on this particular topic and maybe should start new topic on it. I'm interested in hearing what others who have better knowledge than I have on it. I'm not triboligist ( not sure if thats spelled correctly) but I'm pretty good at knowing a good oil when I see one.
 
Originally Posted by Steve1978
I have a 2014 Ram 1500 with 5.7 and am orginal owner. I pulled factory oil at 3,000 and put in Amsoil SS 5w20. Ran that to 10,000 on odometer. I disabled MDS with Diablo tuner Than put in Redline 5w-20. I ran that until odometer read 19,000. Sent in for UOA and Blackstone said it looked great and could of gone little longer. TBN was at 2.9 still. I began to read up and found Burla on forums and liked what I was reading. I decided to use redline 5w-30 and have been using that since. I'm at 84,000 now. I've had nothing but a smooth as silk running engine. I got tickets but it was exhaust manifold bolts. I replaced with BBK ceramic shorty headers. Only true fix in my opinion for exhaust bolt issue. I've had reduced engine bay temps and very Happy with them. I've been very interested in trying the Driven LS30 oil but have not done it. Has anyone used this oil and what did they think? I don't mean to change subject on this particular topic and maybe should start new topic on it. I'm interested in hearing what others who have better knowledge than I have on it. I'm not triboligist ( not sure if thats spelled correctly) but I'm pretty good at knowing a good oil when I see one.


I'm running Driven LS30 in my 2002 Tahoe 5.3L with 237k miles. It drastically quieted down the cold start piston slap it's had since new. I'm a big fan of it. It's formulated with ~400 ppm of tri-nuclear moly and 1200-1300 ppm ZDDP packaged in a PAO/ester base oil.
 
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by Steve1978
I have a 2014 Ram 1500 with 5.7 and am orginal owner. I pulled factory oil at 3,000 and put in Amsoil SS 5w20. Ran that to 10,000 on odometer. I disabled MDS with Diablo tuner Than put in Redline 5w-20. I ran that until odometer read 19,000. Sent in for UOA and Blackstone said it looked great and could of gone little longer. TBN was at 2.9 still. I began to read up and found Burla on forums and liked what I was reading. I decided to use redline 5w-30 and have been using that since. I'm at 84,000 now. I've had nothing but a smooth as silk running engine. I got tickets but it was exhaust manifold bolts. I replaced with BBK ceramic shorty headers. Only true fix in my opinion for exhaust bolt issue. I've had reduced engine bay temps and very Happy with them. I've been very interested in trying the Driven LS30 oil but have not done it. Has anyone used this oil and what did they think? I don't mean to change subject on this particular topic and maybe should start new topic on it. I'm interested in hearing what others who have better knowledge than I have on it. I'm not triboligist ( not sure if thats spelled correctly) but I'm pretty good at knowing a good oil when I see one.


I'm running Driven LS30 in my 2002 Tahoe 5.3L with 237k miles. It drastically quieted down the cold start piston slap it's had since new. I'm a big fan of it. It's formulated with ~400 ppm of tri-nuclear moly and 1200-1300 ppm ZDDP packaged in a PAO/ester base oil.


Isn't that the same formula as Redline?
 
Originally Posted by burla
Yes one issue is ticks can be exhaust bolts, our rough number is about 50% of them, and yes they can sound identical. I would look there first as that if that is the nature of the tick fix it or not, wont wipe out your cam.

If the cam wasn't hardened properly it would be multiple lobs, this is a problem with the lifters unique to hemi's. More and more guys are paying attention and taking pics of their cams. In most cases there is horrible pitting on one or two lobs from hemi tick. You don't have to look hard to see the problem, other forums have sticky's with 1000's of posts and examples.

Again, everyone needs to change their oil, it should be encouraging and interesting the results that have been coming in.

Exhaust ticks seem to quiet down as the engine heats up whereas the Hemi tick gets louder.
 
Originally Posted by Silverado12
Originally Posted by burla
Yes one issue is ticks can be exhaust bolts, our rough number is about 50% of them, and yes they can sound identical. I would look there first as that if that is the nature of the tick fix it or not, wont wipe out your cam.

If the cam wasn't hardened properly it would be multiple lobs, this is a problem with the lifters unique to hemi's. More and more guys are paying attention and taking pics of their cams. In most cases there is horrible pitting on one or two lobs from hemi tick. You don't have to look hard to see the problem, other forums have sticky's with 1000's of posts and examples.

Again, everyone needs to change their oil, it should be encouraging and interesting the results that have been coming in.

Exhaust ticks seem to quiet down as the engine heats up whereas the Hemi tick gets louder.



Where are the 1000's of examples of Hemi tick and soft lobes? If you check HEMI forums for 15+ years there are dozens not thousands.
 
Originally Posted by dave1251

Where are the 1000's of examples of Hemi tick and soft lobes? If you check HEMI forums for 15+ years there are dozens not thousands.


Nice Straw Man Argument.
 
Originally Posted by Hootbro
Originally Posted by dave1251

Where are the 1000's of examples of Hemi tick and soft lobes? If you check HEMI forums for 15+ years there are dozens not thousands.


Nice Straw Man Argument.



There is the strawman. If the problem is widespread then there has to be hundreds of thousands of examples of the problem. How many million HEMI vehicles have been sold? A dozen OCD control freaks complain about a tick with a engine which is very noisy even when it is running at peak performance.

Then to top it off some of them with no education in tribologity, manufacturing, engineering, physics, and can not use a scientific method to prove such and such nonsense formulation with additive X and base this solves the problem which may or may not be fictional we will never no because nothing about a supposed problem can be proven.
 
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Forgive me as I'm just a wrenching tech and don't have the formal oil and engineering training that many display here. I have always been interested in oils though. I haven't been on this site much in a couple years but I am a Tech at an FCA dealer. Anyways I wish I would have kept a log of what cam lobes were killed for which cylinders. We work in a fast paced rat race world and you are just getting the vehicle fixed and on to the next.

I've probably done 20-25 cam/lifter replacements in the last 4-5 years. Those are 5.7 engines. Some were MDS lifters some were not. IIRC many of them were on the left bank usually 5 or 7.

I did see another guy have a squeaking lifter on a Durango, ended up being on the right bank my guess is that was gonna fail soon

I have seen even the 6.4 SRT ones lose lobes but not the 6.4 medium duty truck engine. Maybe 2-3 of them.

The 6.4 truck engine Those I have seen a broken valve spring which ended in a open bent intake valve that one was cylinder 5. And a different truck an intake valve that would not close all the way it sort of looked like a out of place guide when me an a couple guys looked at it that was on cylinder 8

The 3.6 pentastar engines have the cam problems too. The roller on the rocker arm will eat the cam like the Hemi but obviously the 3.6 is OHC

No input on oil usage or recommendations

Hemis are pretty noisy. I prep a lot of new trucks too and there's probably 20% ones of the transporter have cold start lifter noise. I'm not so familiar with the warm noisy because like I said hemis are pretty noisy have been since 03 when this came out in the ram

Hopefully that contributes a little like I said I'm just a tech without the background of these other guys just wanted to give a working mans perspective as I hadn't seen one in this post
 
Good points here. There is definitely a LOT of new gen hemis running around in many different types of vehicles. An extremely small minority have some problems, which based on probability against production numbers is quite reasonable.

The more you make the more likely a few will fail. High volume means there will always be some problems.

As is always the case, prompt resolution at the dealer is the best solution to this issue.

FWIW our RAM has just shy of 80k miles and runs perfectly, smooth and quiet on PP 5w-20...
 
For my UOAs, the oil with higher moly cut my wear in half even though I was towing in 100* heat with oil temps of 240*
 

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Originally Posted by CleverUserName
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR

I'm running Driven LS30 in my 2002 Tahoe 5.3L with 237k miles. It drastically quieted down the cold start piston slap it's had since new. I'm a big fan of it. It's formulated with ~400 ppm of tri-nuclear moly and 1200-1300 ppm ZDDP packaged in a PAO/ester base oil.


Isn't that the same formula as Redline?


Same concept. Red Line has 30-40% more moly though I don't know if it's all tri-nuclear. The only answer I got from Dave on that subject is "It's not MoS2."

Driven is about 15% cheaper.
 
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