Mobil1 5W-20, 7948 miles, 2010 Mazda5 2.3L

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From the Latest Oil Change thread:
Originally Posted By: Fission
2010 Mazda 5 - 29,982 miles

Out: Mobil1 5W-20 SN
Mazda OEM Filter LF05-14-302B
7,948 miles / 11 months

In: Mobil1 5W-20 SN
Liqui Moly MoS2 (~225ml)
Motorcraft FL-400s

Image posted because I find it easier to read. Per the sticky, I also included the code block for long-term retention.
eKxxKKz.png


Code:


OIL M1 5W20

MILES IN USE 7,948

MILES 29,982

SAMPLE TAKEN 06/09/13



ALUMINUM 3

CHROMIUM 0

IRON 9

COPPER 4

LEAD 0

TIN 0

MOLYBDENUM 84

NICKEL 1

MANGANESE 0

SILVER 0

TITANIUM 0

POTASSIUM 0

BORON 31

SILICON 11

SODIUM 11

CALCIUM 1233

MAGNESIUM 854

PHOSPHORUS 750

ZINC 890

BARIUM 0



SUS VIS 210ºF 52.1

cSt VIS 100ºC 7.92

FLASHPOINT ºF 375

FUEL %
ANTIFREEZE % 0.0

WATER % 0.0

INSOLUBLES $ 0.3

TBN 2.6
 
Quote:
Oil starting to thin.


The engine apparently does not care ...


Nice low wear.
No significiant contamination.
Get TAN next time; look toward extension for ROI. This sample is way under-utilized.
 
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UOA on the M1 looks "good", though UOA do not evidence extreme wear - it evidences instances of chemical action/PROTOECTION from avoided extreme wear - and youve had little EP action/conversion.

I would absolutely recommend against the liqui-moly additive - wrong moly chemistry and form for a modern combustion engine. My newish Honda never recovered its good performance after STUPIDLY running Liqui-Moly MoS2 in Edge w/Ti synthetic. Its going to the local honda dealer for a health check up when I get time. (Engine runs poorly and rough with a bad roll at idle - no MIL lit.)
 
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Wow Arco the list of things you blame on that 1/3 of a can of Liqui Moly that was in your sump for just a few miles just continues to grow and grow... that was over a year ago now wasn't it?
crazy.gif


OP this is a good looking UOA! Certainly no indication that things are anything other than peachy in there.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to push this OCI to 10k miles. Is the TAN recommended to confirm that the OCI mileage is ok (as in, crossover of TBN/TAN), or because it took me almost a year to get to my OCI mileage?

I don't quite follow the "EP action/conversion." Also, the MoS2 is already in the Mazda5; so far no problems.

I've got 1 more OCI's-worth of Mobil1 5W-20, and then I'll likely switch to a 0W-20 to match what's required for my Honda. That's 20k miles from now, though, so I've got a lot of time. The Honda's due for its first change soon, and it'll be getting the OEM Mazda 0W-20 w/ moly. My dealer's got plenty of it.

Edit: Actually, I may check to see if I can swap my 4 qts of Mobil1 5W-20 for Mobil1 0W-20 AFE. The prices are the same at Walmart. That would make the 5's next change 4 qts 0W-20 AFE + leftover .5 qt 5W-20.
 
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In regard to the TBN/TAN, that is a topic where not everyone agrees, probably because they really don't understand the relationship, or the reasoning behind it.

You cannot only look at TBN alone; never gives you a full picutre. Here's why ...

TAN will increase over time, but just like the depletion of TBN, the increase of TAN is not linear; it's parabolic.

TAN may likely cross over TAN; often will at some point, if you run out your OCI long enough. But, that does NOT indicate that something is wrong or bad.

When both TBN and TAN are reasonably low, then there is little cause for concern. These are predictors of lube health; they are not the tellers of equipment wear. They can only predict what MIGHT happen, should things continue on a developing parabolic path. Just because TBN is low, does not mean TAN will automatically be high. Even when they cross, that still does not mean TAN is high enough to be a reason to condemn the fluid. It's a cautionary marker; it's not a absolute assurance at lower magnitudes.

Generally, Blackstone warns of TBN being "low" at 1.0; they warn of TAN being "high" over 8.0. As long as you're within those thresholds, you're probably OK. As you approach those limits, you need to pay closer and close attention to your wear metals.

Why are we concerned about low TBN? Because TBN offsets TAN. But low TBN is not an assurance of high TAN; it's only a risk indicator of high TAN. TAN will often cross over TBN, but still not get high enough to cause acidic degradation of metals in the engine.

Wear control is the paramount purpose of lubricants. While they do "clean" and "cool", their primary purpose is to reduce friction which reduces wear. That's the simplistic view of it; and it's a pretty good overall concept.

You need to monitor TBN/TAN when you extend an OCI. When TAN crosses TBN, it is not an assurance of wear escalating; it is only a predictive event that means you need to start paying closer attention to wear rates, so that you can discern when wear is being effected. Many folks use the cross-over event as a condemnation point; that's a "play it safe" action. They are not doing an OCI because wear was effected; they are doing an OCI under a preconcieved notion that wear will eventually be effected, but they cannot predict when that would occur. Only wear rates tell you when wear is effected.

I have had some UOAs run out long enough where TAN crossed over TBN, but when you look at the wear metals, you'd never have known anything happened. The cross-over event never effected wear at all, because the cross-over occured at a low magnitude, not a high one. While the base was low, so was the acid. Hence, no destructive acidic reaction.

Using the TBN/TAN cross-over is not really any different from using the odometer to OCI; they are only predictions based upon supposition, and not actions based upon factual evidence of wear.

See the difference?

Conceptually, you have to imagine an overlay of the two parabolic curves interacting with each other. Only when TBN is low, and TAN is high, will you need to then concern yourself with watching wear effects from acid. (Acid wear is a different cause than mechanical wear, but they "report" the same in UOA metals). Also, you have to realize that statistical variation is always in play; it's hard (if not impossible) to nail down one single magnitude as "bad" or "good". This is more a topic of the shades of gray.

Extended OCIs are not just about one sole thing; they are a culmination of many concepts coming together in concert. When you understand how they work, and how to use them, they can be of great benefit. Knowing how to read UOAs (not just metals, but contamination and acid/base), as well as monitoring coolant, fuel, leaks, compression, noises, filtration PCs, etc, are all important to decsions points. And not the least of which you also have to understand statistical modeling to apply concepts of variance, to understand what is and is not "normal" for your application.

I have many friends that know I'm into lubes; it's a gear-head thing. But most of them do not have the desire/knowledge/paticence to understand the real world of lube maintenance programs. For them, I just tell them to OCI when the OEM says so. To pay for UOAs, and not understand their useful purpose, is a bigger waste than just dumping oil too soon.

You can either listen to the concert of knowledge, or hear the cacophony of rhetoric.

Your choice.
 
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