Mobil 1 - Why do some bad mouth it?

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
I slept very well last winter.

Hibernating like a bear? Sometimes I wish I could sleep through our winters, too.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: CamaroT56
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: CamaroT56
I really like mobil 1 product because it high quality

How do you know it's high quality? Because their website or TV commercial told you so?



I think I grown up with it, by seeing my dad and his brother use it in their car, and motorcycle. I remember when I was 5 ( im 25 now ), hang around my dad shop ( its small shop, that we carry oil in gallon or 1 quart only ) this customer coming in for oil change, he want nothing but mobil 1 in his motorcycle. My dad told him that we are out atm, and have couple case coming in in 2 day, my dad also tell him about Castrol, He say no and he say he will coming back in 2 day for that mobil 1, sure enought 2 day later he show up.

Since we move to American, I still see my dad buying mobil 1 for his cars. Some time I told him about pennzoils product, or valvolin, how good these and little bit cheaper then mobil 1. He still buying mobil 1, I guest I cant change my old man to change his favore oil.


That would be fine if the formulation didn't change, but it did so how can he know for sure it's going to protect the same when we are seeing higher than normal numbers showing up in UOA's since the changes?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: CamaroT56

I think I grown up with it, by seeing my dad and his brother use it in their car, and motorcycle. I remember when I was 5 ( im 25 now ), hang around my dad shop ( its small shop, that we carry oil in gallon or 1 quart only ) this customer coming in for oil change, he want nothing but mobil 1 in his motorcycle. My dad told him that we are out atm, and have couple case coming in in 2 day, my dad also tell him about Castrol, He say no and he say he will coming back in 2 day for that mobil 1, sure enought 2 day later he show up.

Since we move to American, I still see my dad buying mobil 1 for his cars. Some time I told him about pennzoils product, or valvolin, how good these and little bit cheaper then mobil 1. He still buying mobil 1, I guest I cant change my old man to change his favore oil.

Understood. 20 years ago, M1 may in fact have been one of the best choices. But times have changed, as you pointed out.

No use trying to convince your dad to use something else though. Let him be. He's not really doing anyone any harm by continuing to use M1, IMO.

 

[gaspo]

While I have nothing against M1..haha.. - Valvoline IVA Wear test just adding oil to the fire (yeah I know it’s old news)

1) Mobil 1 5W-30 does not meet minimum API SM or ILSAC GF-4 specifications because of its inferior performance in the Sequence IVA wear test
2) Failure to meet the ILSAC and API specs also would mean that Mobil 1 5W-30 cannot meet basic GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, or Honda requirements

 

[lipadj46]

Originally Posted By: StevieC

I have used their stuff in the past and would use the other stuff listed above but no way am I paying premium price for a product


We don't pay a premium for it here. M1 is actually one of the less expensive synthetics on the shelf at a walmart. I would add the HM oils and the AFE oils to your list, even the regular old 10w30.

 

[MetalSlug]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: CamaroT56

I think I grown up with it, by seeing my dad and his brother use it in their car, and motorcycle. I remember when I was 5 ( im 25 now ), hang around my dad shop ( its small shop, that we carry oil in gallon or 1 quart only ) this customer coming in for oil change, he want nothing but mobil 1 in his motorcycle. My dad told him that we are out atm, and have couple case coming in in 2 day, my dad also tell him about Castrol, He say no and he say he will coming back in 2 day for that mobil 1, sure enought 2 day later he show up.

Since we move to American, I still see my dad buying mobil 1 for his cars. Some time I told him about pennzoils product, or valvolin, how good these and little bit cheaper then mobil 1. He still buying mobil 1, I guest I cant change my old man to change his favore oil.

Understood. 20 years ago, M1 may in fact have been one of the best choices. But times have changed, as you pointed out.

No use trying to convince your dad to use something else though. Let him be. He's not really doing anyone any harm by continuing to use M1, IMO.



You right, he happy with what he using, so I just let it be. he a hard hard kinda guy, where he only doing something that he like. Mabe let him read BITOG hehe. Good thing that I never saw Fram filter when he changing the oil, alway Mobil 1 filter.

 

[HTSS_TR]

I just changed Synpower in my E430 to M1 last night. It will be in the engine for 12 months or when FSS goes down to 0 whichever is first, if the engine will not explode first.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Why have an E.P. oil and a normal synthetic? When before they only had 1 with an outstanding formulation and a decent price that did an amazing job.

Now they have too many choices and the formulas seem weak on anything but TDT, 0w40, D1, and E.P.


The way ExxonMobil markets their synthetics is really a stroke of genius. The different lines are clearly differentiated to different purposes. If one wants extended drains, one goes EP. If one wants an HDEO, one can go TDT, Delvac 1, or Delvac 1 ESP if it's a diesel with the latest emissions gadgetry. If one wants a high mileage oil, one goes HM. Then they have the advanced fuel economy version.

The point isn't that Mobil 1 is better or worse than anything else out there. Amsoil thrives on the extended drain market. They stick to basically one thing and they do it very well.

When one looks at Pennzoil, regardless of how good their products are, what's the difference between PP and PU? Obviously, the price is different. We would suspect that PU is somehow "better" than PP and PYB. Who are they targeting, though? It's not advertised as an extended drain oil, or a high mileage oil, a synthetic HDEO, nor do the off the shelf varieties have a whack of European specifications. If I'm to pay a premium for PU over PP, what is "better" about the product? Without some inclination above X% better cleaning, I have no idea what advantage I'm buying and how it fits my intended application. Can it go 25,000 miles? Not with the same confidence that one could with Amsoil. Is it a high mileage engine oil? It's certainly not advertised as such. Is it specially formulated for advanced emissions controls? Maybe, but not advertised as such.

Castrol is in the same boat. Why should I buy Edge when I can get GC for just a little over half the price? The same criticisms apply to their line.

All the companies make fine oils. I just find that it's easier to locate what you want in the Mobil line. I can go to WM and get 0w-40 and TDT (along with most of their other lines), without looking hard. If I want a European spec oil from Castrol, I have to look harder (and would be clueless if it wasn't for BITOG). If I wanted a European spec oil from SOPUS, I'd be in trouble, since it isn't on the shelf, period.

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Why have an E.P. oil and a normal synthetic?


Why have a Platinum and an Ultra? Why have a Syntec and an Edge?

Castrol was the one who started the muddying of the waters as to what's a synthetic and what's not. Now, Mobil follows the very rules that Castrol thrust upon the industry, and we complain? SOPUS does the same thing, and get applauded?

 

[MetalSlug]

so pick your favore oil and stick with it, no matter wat any one say ? tell your grand kids you using your favore brand and they stick with it hehe.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: lipadj46
Again awesome proof, another companies' test results. Pepsi is better, I remember the Pepsi challenge commercials.


If you are comparing certified lab results to a soft drink taste test, that really shows your technical comprehension level.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: Russell
In my 1995 BMW 525i with 188,000 miles, Mobil 1 0w40 made my engine very noisy.


I've heard that same complaint time and time again over the years while reading this board. I've heard that complaint so often, and from such a numerous variety of members, that I've decided to keep a safe distance from that oil.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
I think my point still stands... Why take the chance when there is other great oils out there for the same price or less than M1 that don't leave you worrying based on UOA's.

I saw your previous comment about this too, and agree that comparing UOAs might be valid if it was an apples-to-apples comparison.

I was wondering if anyone has actually compared UOAs between a few different full synthetics in the same car under the same driving conditions and tested by the same UOA lab to try and get a real apples-to-apples comparison? And if so, how does that compare to the hyped up comparisons between the manufactures?

 

[apwillard1986]

There seems to be a new thread on this subject once a week. There are many nuanced answers; the reality is it's a phenomena as old as consumerism. They are the market leader simple as that. People always scrutinize the guy at the top, they become the yardstick. Everyone wants to believe THEY are using the best product for a given application, in this case motor oil. The reality is in a modern engine with reasonable OCIs any modern oil that meets required specs. will allow a vehicle to run well past it's owners desire to drive it. I know many people with very high mileage cars all using a range from the absolute cheapest conventional to the boutique synthetics.

Its all a function of how willing you are to agonize about it. The guy that knows nothing about oil except what grade to put in and how to change it that buys M1 by the jug at WM every 5000 mi will likely never have a single engine oil issue and drive for many miles. He may even extol the virtue of his choice of motor oil to friends and family. Never knowing that he may have had better looking UOAs had he grabbed the jug next to it. I think it's important to keep in mind that we are in the minority of folks who analyze oil for trace wear metals down to the PPM.

 

[demarpaint]

In a nutshell here is why I no longer use M1. I used it exclusively for close to 20 years in my E Series Ford van. Never any problems with it, then when the 4x and 8x wear ads came out along with pretty consistant higher iron reports here I had questions.

My brother and I contacted Mobil via email and their CS and attitude absolutely STUNK!!!!!!!! At that point I decided to try PP, I noticed a quieter engine, and some extra cash in my pocket, not too bad. I have recently switched to Edge and am happy with that as well. When I do business with a company I want to be treated with respect. Mobil's attitide cost them a loyal customer, and my van sounds better with PP or Edge. UOA reports I've seen with PP and Edge are better too. Win win for me.

Why should I make excuses for a company that I spend my hard earned cash buying their products? They should work hard at keeping a good product in the market place and treat customers with respect, not with an attitude of we're the best, you need us we don't need you. SCREW them!

 

[ronrackley]

I'm thinking about going back to my old friend Mobil 1 - but in the X w 40 weight only.

I adopted Mobil 1 early - going to 5,000 mile oil changes with it from 3,000 with conventional oil - back when it was the only synthetic oil to be commonly found on store shelves. I was persuaded by arguments about the lubricating properties of synthetic oil and, especially, the engine cleanliness issue. [Having seen many examples of sludge under valve covers and in oil pans and other places - and having heard noisy valve lifters because of deposits - many times when I worked in auto service in the 1960s.]

It worked very well for me, with no engine noises and no cleanliness issues. I was a very loyal Mobil 1 user for many years. It didn't matter that it cost more; it was what I wanted in my engines.

Then, when all the X w 30 engine oils had to be reformulated with lower Phosphorous and Zinc a few years ago, I reasoned that it would be good to keep using oil with additives more like what was available when my engines were new. The X w 40 oils, because they are formulated primarily for diesel engines, did not have their Phosphorous and Zinc levels reduced nearly as much as the X w 30 oils did. I tried Rotella 5 w 40 synthetio, it worked very well, and that's what I've been using in my cars that are out of warranty ever since.

I've been on the sidelines on the Mobil 1 iron issue about which so much has been written on this forum - curious about it but not having any idea if it really is a problem. Why experiment with my cars when the Rotella has proven itself to be everything I need?

But, I notice from UOAs that the Mobil 1 X w 40 oils have about as much Phosphorous and Zinc as Rotella and are putting up very good wear numbers without high iron being an issue. I'm thinking about buying some of it when I need to restock the shelf in my garage. I have enough confidence that Mobil 1 and Rotella of the same weight will be equally good for my engines, so I might let the price per quart make the decision for me.

 

[AlienBug]

Originally Posted By: apwillard1986
There seems to be a new thread on this subject once a week. There are many nuanced answers; the reality is it's a phenomena as old as consumerism. They are the market leader simple as that. People always scrutinize the guy at the top, they become the yardstick. Everyone wants to believe THEY are using the best product for a given application, in this case motor oil. The reality is in a modern engine with reasonable OCIs any modern oil that meets required specs. will allow a vehicle to run well past it's owners desire to drive it. I know many people with very high mileage cars all using a range from the absolute cheapest conventional to the boutique synthetics.

Its all a function of how willing you are to agonize about it. The guy that knows nothing about oil except what grade to put in and how to change it that buys M1 by the jug at WM every 5000 mi will likely never have a single engine oil issue and drive for many miles. He may even extol the virtue of his choice of motor oil to friends and family. Never knowing that he may have had better looking UOAs had he grabbed the jug next to it. I think it's important to keep in mind that we are in the minority of folks who analyze oil for trace wear metals down to the PPM.


Also, don't forget, when you "explain" to the Joe Sixpack M1 user at WM that the oil he's been using for 28 years without problems, the industry leader, actually SUCKS, you automatically certify yourself as an expert.

 

[saberz]

Some engines are noisier on different oils but that noise subsides after 1 or 2 oil changes using the same oil. If you are on X brand oil with X brand formulation for 8 years and switch to Y brand oil with Y brand formulation its going to sound different. 8 years of the same noise, Y brand jumps in and will take the first OCI to remove X brands left overs and would set in shortly after.

This has happened a few times with me. Mobil 1 5w30 sounded no different than the PP fill in the Impala. The Xterra, all oil sounded like it was being beat down and you can hear lots of engine noise, its in the nature of the SUV. Mobil 1 is an excellent product, people think that because an oil makes their car sound louder it must be bad. Maybe the oil is freeing up the engine to perform better, maybe the viscosity had a difference in how it sounded but doesn't change the way it protects.

 

[apwillard1986]

Originally Posted By: ronrackley
I'm thinking about going back to my old friend Mobil 1 - but in the X w 40 weight only.

I adopted Mobil 1 early - going to 5,000 mile oil changes with it from 3,000 with conventional oil - back when it was the only synthetic oil to be commonly found on store shelves. I was persuaded by arguments about the lubricating properties of synthetic oil and, especially, the engine cleanliness issue. [Having seen many examples of sludge under valve covers and in oil pans and other places - and having heard noisy valve lifters because of deposits - many times when I worked in auto service in the 1960s.]

It worked very well for me, with no engine noises and no cleanliness issues. I was a very loyal Mobil 1 user for many years. It didn't matter that it cost more; it was what I wanted in my engines.

Then, when all the X w 30 engine oils had to be reformulated with lower Phosphorous and Zinc a few years ago, I reasoned that it would be good to keep using oil with additives more like what was available when my engines were new. The X w 40 oils, because they are formulated primarily for diesel engines, did not have their Phosphorous and Zinc levels reduced nearly as much as the X w 30 oils did. I tried Rotella 5 w 40 synthetio, it worked very well, and that's what I've been using in my cars that are out of warranty ever since.

I've been on the sidelines on the Mobil 1 iron issue about which so much has been written on this forum - curious about it but not having any idea if it really is a problem. Why experiment with my cars when the Rotella has proven itself to be everything I need?

But, I notice from UOAs that the Mobil 1 X w 40 oils have about as much Phosphorous and Zinc as Rotella and are putting up very good wear numbers without high iron being an issue. I'm thinking about buying some of it when I need to restock the shelf in my garage. I have enough confidence that Mobil 1 and Rotella of the same weight will be equally good for my engines, so I might let the price per quart make the decision for me.


If your looking for zddp you might try one of the M1HM flavors. Just an option.

 

[saberz]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Playing Devils advocates here... I think we all need to ask ourselves these questions:

For the price of Mobil 1 and the price of other Quality Synthetics why wouldn't you choose the one that has shown the lowest metal counts on UOA's if the price is in the same ballpark?

To me it just makes sense and the whole "I have always used M1 and always had nothing but many miles from it" logic just doesn't work considering the formulations have been changed and since they were changed the higher Iron counts showed up.
Why take the chance with all the other great oils out there?

Why have an E.P. oil and a normal synthetic? When before they only had 1 with an outstanding formulation and a decent price that did an amazing job.

Now they have too many choices and the formulas seem weak on anything but TDT, 0w40, D1, and E.P.

?!?



Because if you used Brand X for 10 years and had NO PROBLEMS, why would you switch? Brand X protected your engine and didn't let it fail. You went 100,000 miles on Brand X, no harm no foul. It's in the back of your mind now, that Brand X took care of your baby.

I've used M1 for 8 years/85k miles and had no engine related failures because of the oil. I have buddies who have run 15 years over 200,000 miles using Mobil 1 with no issues. I have a buddy who has a love affair with 80's Ford pickups and only ONLY runs PYB and ran many a high miles with it. Some people don't want to switch, because a certain product never led them wrong and it works fine for that purpose.


Some people don't care about formulations, extended drain intervals etc. They just care that it "works".

 

[saberz]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: lipadj46
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Funny you mention the 'vette. My friend ran M1 5w-30 in his 'vette thinking it was the best, being "approved" and factory-fill. His UOA was a disaster. The best vette UOAs I saw were 15w-40 HD.


Now the question becomes would another energy conserving over the counter synthetic 5w30 do appreciably better in consecutive UOAs in the same engine during the same interval, the same season driving in the same manner? Or are we just picking and choosing our data points to prove our bias?


It's not about "data points", it's about Mobil 1 5w-30 sucking in an application it's INTENDED for. If it didn't SUCK, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I think people are also missing the fact that this car is also LOW MILEAGE. There is no guarantee by 16k miles its still not shedding metal like crazy. Regardless of what oil you use it may produce the same results.