Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W40
- Thread starter TiGeo
- Start date
You cannot see C5 in 0W40.
Never mind.
It's pretty much a dpf for gasoline cars.... not a catalytic converter.
Thanks for the heads up on the bundle! That's a killer deal and we'll see how this oil does in my 2011 Golf TDI. I've been running Schaeffer 8008 in it will do UOA on this last run of 10k and directly compare against this newer Mobil.
Other than TAN/TBN a random UOA does not discriminate comparative oil quality.
I get what you are saying but the UOA on the Blackstone won't be random, I've been using them for a long time so have a trend to compare. Thanks for the note though. I probably should have started my original post with "First time poster, long time lurker".
Welcome to the forumI get what you are saying but the UOA on the Blackstone won't be random, I've been using them for a long time so have a trend to compare. Thanks for the note though. I probably should have started my original post with "First time poster, long time lurker".
I think what he was getting at is a UOA will almost certainly not show any wear differences between different brands of oils. Even Blackstone has stated this. I'm paraphrasing, but the gist is, any API-rated oil will perform the same (from a UOA perspective). Yeah, you'll see differences in viscosity, additive package and TBN, but wear levels will be pretty consistent between different brands and even grades of oil.I get what you are saying but the UOA on the Blackstone won't be random, I've been using them for a long time so have a trend to compare. Thanks for the note though. I probably should have started my original post with "First time poster, long time lurker".
Just to make sure my understand is correct, as I understand it, the idea is to see how the differences (viscosity, additive package and TBN) are on same mileage run (miles in being the main constant variable) on said oil to understand if it'll protect (or not) better than the previous oil I was running. I'm here to learn so will take all the lessons I can.
Thanks Guys!
You can't really tell from a UOA how much better one oil will protect than another. The UOA is more of a basic engine health status. Is it wearing normally? If there is abnormal wear, can we learn why? For example, if silicon is also high, we would look at the air intake filtration system. If sodium and potassium are high, then we look for a coolant leak.Just to make sure my understand is correct, as I understand it, the idea is to see how the differences (viscosity, additive package and TBN) are on same mileage run (miles in being the main constant variable) on said oil to understand if it'll protect (or not) better than the previous oil I was running. I'm here to learn so will take all the lessons I can.
Thanks Guys!
On some level, you can compare two oils' viscosity or TBN, but even then, you can't control variables enough between oil runs for the comparison to be statistically valid. It could still be fun and scratch an itch, but you can't draw any real conclusions.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2021
- Messages
- 355
With a fresh oil analysis and a trend analysis series, you can already see how an engine oil performed. You have to pay attention to what an analysis can show you. It cannot show coking or compatibility with seals, for example. Make an analysis immediately after changing the oil from the engine, and always according to identical mileage. If their driving conditions are almost identical, you can already see how an oil in the engine works in terms of wear. Where else should the elements such as iron and aluminum come from, if you know the initial value after an oil change, then these are from wear and tear. It is only important to drive or compare several analyses with the same oil.
Here is an example:Just to make sure my understand is correct, as I understand it, the idea is to see how the differences (viscosity, additive package and TBN) are on same mileage run (miles in being the main constant variable) on said oil to understand if it'll protect (or not) better than the previous oil I was running. I'm here to learn so will take all the lessons I can.
Thanks Guys!
Six different oils over 41,679 miles. They all performed very similarly, despite different additive packages and viscosities. Here is a breakdown of parts per million per 1000 miles. Focus on the yellow sections.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2021
- Messages
- 355
I claim that there is no difference between sae20 and sae40 in approved engines, several analyses have shown this.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Spectrography only samples a narrow range of particle sizes, so if the engine is shedding larger particles, the testing is "blind" to that. That's why it often doesn't catch rapidly occurring failures.
On top of that, it can't differentiate between corrosion, wear, chelation...etc. So if you have an oil that has aggressive chemistry, it can show higher levels of a metal in a UOA, despite quite possibly producing lower wear.
An additional point is that an oil with a weak DI package that's allowing deposits to form can show artificially low numbers because metals are heavy and are more inclined to fall out of suspension and get caught in these deposits. Contrarily, an oil with aggressive chemistry may liberate these metals, artificially inflating numbers.
This is why UOA's aren't meant to be a comparative platform for different lubricants, they are a mechanism to, firstly, let you know that the lubricant is still serviceable and, secondly, whether it's contaminated with something that should cause cessation of operation until this can be remedied, such as coolant ingress, significant fuel, air intake tract leaks...etc.
And then of course there's the accuracy, which we know can be all over the map, even with the same lab.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2021
- Messages
- 355
Most particles are smaller than 5 micrometres and are caused by wear and not due to oxidation. This can also be recognised by the values. It is certainly not a complete cure, but an oil analysis says more than they describe it. Even Porsche works with it at the 24h of le mans because they know what wear this engine produces normally and too much. Therefore, they can estimate what is good and bad. This can also be done on the basis of the analyses with us if you carry out several analyses one after the other.
If you know the oxidation of fresh oil, you can draw good conclusions about the used oil during an oil analysis. It is quite possible to draw conclusions from this... In any case, when it comes to wear and tear ...
If you know the oxidation of fresh oil, you can draw good conclusions about the used oil during an oil analysis. It is quite possible to draw conclusions from this... In any case, when it comes to wear and tear ...
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
It's a range, I think you are missing the bigger picture here.
No it can't.
Do you mean complete picture?
No it doesn't.
Two things:
1. Porsche does extensive tear-down analysis to know how their spec lubricant is performing and they can track oil performance because they know how the oil already performs.
2. If you think the spectrography being used by Porsche is comparable to what you get from Blackstone for $20, I've got some tropical ocean-front property in Alberta to sell you.
No, it can't. The accuracy isn't there, the verified performance isn't there, the knowledge about how the lubricant performs isn't there. There are a whole host of unknowns.
Why do you keep latching onto oxidation? I gave you several other contributors, including chelation, which produces elevated metal figures as a result of the polar nature of base oils like esters and AN's.
Yeah, if UOA was all you needed to determine wear, then there wouldn't be wear tests in oil specs like the BMW Valvetronic test performed via radionuclide technique.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2021
- Messages
- 355
Where else should the elements come from except from wear and tear? So if I have a low concentration of elements smaller than 5 micrometres, then this is certainly a good sign. Larger particles are much rarer than is always propagated here. You can make an assessment of the condition of the plant.
The PQ index, on the other hand, informs about all existing iron particles that are magnetic, regardless of particle size. Especially for oil samples from gearboxes, diesel engines and hydraulic systems, but also for grease samples, it provides meaningful information about abnormal and usually acute wear processes. The two values are interpreted together, because the PQ index provides information about the size distribution of the iron particles in addition to the pure iron value. Finally, important statements about the condition of the plant can be derived from the combination of both results.
The PQ index, on the other hand, informs about all existing iron particles that are magnetic, regardless of particle size. Especially for oil samples from gearboxes, diesel engines and hydraulic systems, but also for grease samples, it provides meaningful information about abnormal and usually acute wear processes. The two values are interpreted together, because the PQ index provides information about the size distribution of the iron particles in addition to the pure iron value. Finally, important statements about the condition of the plant can be derived from the combination of both results.
Last edited:
From my European B4 need, for short mileage+long time runs it's could be interesting vs FS.
Pros: seems it stays in grade easier than FS (even if it's not an issue for FS with increible performance), little higher HTHS/VI and little more clean for internals/exhaust
Contras: FS supports really longer services and here FS is cheaper, X3 25% expensiver and may be little performance gains under x conditions will be notified after 7 lives
So it's usage/time/hippie question when B4 and C3 are possible.
Pros: seems it stays in grade easier than FS (even if it's not an issue for FS with increible performance), little higher HTHS/VI and little more clean for internals/exhaust
Contras: FS supports really longer services and here FS is cheaper, X3 25% expensiver and may be little performance gains under x conditions will be notified after 7 lives
So it's usage/time/hippie question when B4 and C3 are possible.
