Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 and BMW Long Life 04

[edyvw]

Yeah I'm sure that's it.

I thought the oxidation theory was about Longlife-01? Now you're saying it's also about Longlife-04? Wasn't that discussion about oils with a 0W winter rating?

Where in Madagascar do you live?

It is also LL04.

 

[kschachn]

It is also LL04.

But wasn't the prevailing theory about the winter rating? This oil has a 5W rating like the others that do have Longlife approvals.

 

[edyvw]

But wasn't the prevailing theory about the winter rating? This oil has a 5W rating like the others that do have Longlife approvals.

No M1 except that Super 3000 is approved by BMW. I think oxidation is reason, but could be other stuff too.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Thanks BMWTDzl and andreigbs for you answers.

I think I’m going to stick with the motul right now and try a 7.5k kms oci. Still, I’m quite intrigued by the esp 5w30 not sporting an ll-04 approval since it seems to be a very capable oil judging by the intrinsic quality of the base-oil(gtl, pao, ) and the di pack(tweaked infineum P6000 series with added moly compound) used. Imo, there is something more about it not getting an official cert. from bmw beside the “it oxidizes more” theory…. Maybe shell doing their sissy as they may provide the gtl parts to xom and somewhere inside their agreement includes “don’t put that ll-04 thingy” on the esp label since it’s competing directly with the “official oils” and xom going like "Ok then, let's put the ll-04 thingy on non gtl oils like super 3000"

How expensive is the dealer oil?

I believe the timing chain issues were primarily found in the N20 4-cyl gassers in pre-2013 cars. I frequent the BMW diesel forums quite a bit and there's not much talk about N47 engine timing chains failing prematurely; anecdotal at most.

Gentleman, I'd stick with the Motul oil you're currently using as it's a fantastic lube. I'd also extend the service interval to a comfortable 10k kms, and even that is short IMO. You're wasting perfectly good every 5k kms, no wonder it's getting expensive...

If you find that M1 ESP is cheaper and/or more readily available, use that with confidence as well. If it carries a trifecta of the four big Euro diesel mfr approvals (VW, MB, Porsche, BMW) you'll be just fine.

N47 had same issues in Europe/UK with class action lawsuit etc. It's one reason why I opted not to buy a 328d back in 2015 as I wasn't sure whether BMW had adequately addressed the design flaw.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

...

 

[Gentleman farmer]

@BMWTurboDzl I haven't even asked them about the price, but i guess it would cost me a kidney for the oil only minus the filter. Haha. The car is already out of warranty and that's why i'm delving into the other than dealer's oil territory.
@kschachn i live in Antananarivo.
@edyvw iirc you said earlier that the presence of ester in the esp 5w30 can be the reason of the higher rate of oxidation, do you happen to know if the esters are from the base oil or do they come from the additives?

 

[edyvw]

@BMWTurboDzl I haven't even asked them about the price, but i guess it would cost me a kidney for the oil only minus the filter. Haha. The car is already out of warranty and that's why i'm delving into the other than dealer's oil territory.
@kschachn i live in Antananarivo.
@edyvw iirc you said earlier that the presence of ester in the esp 5w30 can be the reason of the higher rate of oxidation, do you happen to know if the esters are from the base oil or do they come from the additives?

M1 has some esters as base oil (not much). But some other oils have too. Why they have higher rate of oxidation, I am not sure. Motul X-Clean+ 5W30 has some esters too, but it is approved.

 

[Gentleman farmer]

Based on some voas and sometimes what's included in some m1 esp range msds displayed here and there, we can clearly conclude that they all share the same additive packs and base oils but just in different proportion mainly for the low viscosity and low hths ones. Still, the fact that m1 esp lv 0w30 is approved for ll-12fe (just a fuel efficient version of ll-04 in my uneducated guess) in europe is quite interesting. Could it be that the types or rates of viscosity modifier / thickener or ppd used affect an approval, I highly doubt it as it would not be viable and at the same time risky for xom / infineum to change formulation drastically just to get one approval. I mean, what would prevent them to get ll-04/c3 if they can get ll-12fe/c2 just by tweaking some small ingredients ? This is only my opinion and I know it's just a very simplified view of what is really going on in the lubricants industry.

 

[edyvw]

Based on some voas and sometimes what's included in some m1 esp range msds displayed here and there, we can clearly conclude that they all share the same additive packs and base oils but just in different proportion mainly for the low viscosity and low hths ones. Still, the fact that m1 esp lv 0w30 is approved for ll-12fe (just a fuel efficient version of ll-04 in my uneducated guess) in europe is quite interesting. Could it be that the types or rates of viscosity modifier / thickener or ppd used affect an approval, I highly doubt it as it would not be viable and at the same time risky for xom / infineum to change formulation drastically just to get one approval. I mean, what would prevent them to get ll-04/c3 if they can get ll-12fe/c2 just by tweaking some small ingredients ? This is only my opinion and I know it's just a very simplified view of what is really going on in the lubricants industry.

MSDS doesn’t give you full picture of base stocks etc. It just lists chemicals that emergency personnel needs to know when dealing with it.

 

[Gentleman farmer]

Yeah we are all aware of that, yet we can't help ignoring the data they may provide together with all the info gathered from places like bitog to help us spend those well earned 80 usd at every oil change.

 

[930.engineering]

.
All of the oils I have seen mentioned here are appropriate for your N47.
M1 ESP 5W-30 is still one of the best oils available for LL-04 applications
(after warranty) even though it doesn't have the approval any longer.
Yes, the N47TU engine is known for chain issues. I had it replaced under
warranty nine or ten years ago (320d E92 LCI).
To a huge degree your OC interval is dictated by the Diesel fuel quality in
Madagascar. I don't know anything about fuel quality in Madagascar, you
certainly know better. What matters most is probably sulphur and water
content. Perhaps Shell does provide MSDSs for their fuels like they do in
Europe. IMHO much more relevant than reading PCMO MSDSs in your case.
.

 

[edyvw]

Yeah we are all aware of that, yet we can't help ignoring the data they may provide together with all the info gathered from places like bitog to help us spend those well earned 80 usd at every oil change.

I would pay attention what 930 said.
Also, if your N47 is from years when there were chain issues, stick to approved LL04 as 2018 update has timing chain test.

 

[Gentleman farmer]

Fuel quality over here actually is a big concern and that's the main reason behind the shorter oci already mentionned earlier. The plan for now is just to stick with the motul x-clean+, though i may try the x-clean efe 5w30 version just for the sake of it as it's also cheaper.

 

[edyvw]

Fuel quality over here actually is a big concern and that's the main reason behind the shorter oci already mentionned earlier. The plan for now is just to stick with the motul x-clean+, though i may try the x-clean efe 5w30 version just for the sake of it as it's also cheaper.

If fuel is concern, go 5W40 LL04.