Mobil 1 EP vs Castrol (gold) EP

[tyman]

what does the ccs 62 mean?,,6200 ?,,per 5w-30 ?

http://www.pqiamerica.com/Testdescriptions/Coldcrank25.html

I inquired about their D6 ATF. I was curious if it's compatible with Hyundai SP-IV-RR and Dexron HP. I also inquired if they use Group III base oil in their ATF or High Performance motor oils. I found his reply about the D6 ATF a little bit strange because Hyundai SP-IV-RR came out after Dexron HP, and it's more than likely based on it. I could be wrong. I believe they're not confident that GM transmissions calling for Dexron HP will not shudder using RedLine D6. It's silly and it's more than likely a lack of testing on RedLine's part. As @MolaKule stated previously, the shudder issue was cause due to the original black label Dexron HP fluid (Afton add-pack) being hygroscopic. At least his reply was honest, and I sure appreciate that. Especially since AMSOIL ATL uses the same DI package as RedLine D6, yet AMSOIL claims Dexron HP compatibility. More than likely AMSOIL did more testing to ensure that compatibility.

As for not using Group III base oils, I believe that as well. Here is the reply from Red Line:

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Niiiiiice. Perfect answer, nice and concise and no beating around the bush like what Pennzoil and Castrol do.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

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Some changes I've noticed - Noack across the board has changed, HT/HS of the 0w30 has changed too.

They have not yet upgrade to the SP additive packages. That entire 2021 product catalog is full of inaccuracies. I don't understand how it made it like that on their website and why they won't take it down. In fact, they're not producing any of the blends advertised in the table you posted. So, don't get too happy about super-low NOACK 5W-30 just yet.

 

[OVERKILL]

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Some changes I've noticed - Noack across the board has changed, HT/HS of the 0w30 has changed too

OK, this is interesting (just discussing some of the characteristics of what we see in the table). The VI of the 0W-30 points to a pretty light base oil blend, but the pour point doesn't point to a light PAO, nor does the Noack. Wonder if they are using this 6cSt product:

https://www.cpchem.com/sites/default/files/2022-07/Synfluid%20PAO%206%20cSt%20HVI.pdf

They have, like XOM, a couple of different PAO's, their "regular" (non HVI) 6cSt product has 7% Noack but a much lower pour point.

 

[buster]

OK, this is interesting (just discussing some of the characteristics of what we see in the table). The VI of the 0W-30 points to a pretty light base oil blend, but the pour point doesn't point to a light PAO, nor does the Noack. Wonder if they are using this 6cSt product:

https://www.cpchem.com/sites/default/files/2022-07/Synfluid%20PAO%206%20cSt%20HVI.pdf

They have, like XOM, a couple of different PAO's, their "regular" (non HVI) 6cSt product has 7% Noack but a much lower pour point.

Right? I have no idea what's going on with Red Line these days. Kind of all over the place it seems.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

witch one of those two would you choose and why, do you think one is better than the other ?
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A very happy new convert to Mobil 1 products after several years of just being too stubborn to use it. I finally did a little non scientific test. I dont care that someone will say I wasted my time and dont have knowledge about the science etc.... and dont have a clue what I think I am seeing. I know the results I saw and experienced. I finally ran out the "boutique oil I had for my T-GDI diluter before learning i could not go by the oil life meter as if I do I could end up with near extra quart of oil / gas cocktail. Tht happened the vey first two oci. So I scanned and checked for weeks every site I could find about which oils were the top rated / chosen oils for the tiny T-GDI engines. Also read BITOG info and discussions on the subject till my eyes burned. The top 3-4 rated or popular oils. Oils people used, and auto articles and surveys that came up with the similar conclusions. Since the majority were mostly in agreement I chose to follow them , yes with zero scientific verification they knew or had no proof posted to prove their conclusions. I mean we are not splitting the atom here. So their list was like this.... Castrol Edge (black or gold) , Mobil 1 EP or / Mobil 1 AFE / Red LIne / Royal Purple. First run was Castrol 0w20 Black / then 0w20 Castrol EP Gold / followed by 0w30 Mobil1 AFE and currently 0w20 Mobil1 EP. Results were: Castrol Black and Castrol Gold 0w20 both turned black almost immediatley and turned thinner with obvious fuel in it. Creeping up on stick as well. Third test was Mobil1 AFE 0w30. Showed very minimal color change. Did not climb on stick or thin. One thing I did not care for was a strange never heard before whine noise for first few miles until full heat up that seemed to be coming from the turbo area. Could not confirm where this strange noise in a near 99% almost silent engine came from. Next and present run is 0w20 Mobil1 EP. After 1st 1000mi this oil has done something never seen in my experience even with the boutique oils I used to run for extended ocis. This 0w20 Mobil1 EP has stayed exactly where it started on the stick and is as clean an almost the same exact color that came out the bottle. No apparent thinning and certainly no signs or smells of fuel dilution. I have about 2500mi to go on this oci. I am looking forward to draining it and sending my sample off to see tje results. Especially the fuel. I know nothing can cure the dilutions caused by design yet some oils seem to clean better or reduce sludge build up and though I cant explain it, slow or reduce dilution. My long time un scientific answer / guess is that maybe some oils seem to fight or prevent the dilution by clinging better and slowing the means of flow that the fuel travels to mix in the oil as fast? Yes I am aware even though I can not detect fuel dilution I know and expect to have it in the sample results. So the jury is still out on how much fuel will be in sample yet I think I have finally settled and like what I am seeing with the new (for me) OTC Mobil1 that at this point I am well pleased with. I have never seen any oil stay this clean looking after 1000mi.

 

[leadcounsel]

A very happy new convert to Mobil 1 products after several years of just being too stubborn to use it. I finally did a little non scientific test. I dont care that someone will say I wasted my time and dont have knowledge about the science etc.... and dont have a clue what I think I am seeing. I know the results I saw and experienced. I finally ran out the "boutique oil I had for my T-GDI diluter before learning i could not go by the oil life meter as if I do I could end up with near extra quart of oil / gas cocktail. Tht happened the vey first two oci. So I scanned and checked for weeks every site I could find about which oils were the top rated / chosen oils for the tiny T-GDI engines. Also read BITOG info and discussions on the subject till my eyes burned. The top 3-4 rated or popular oils. Oils people used, and auto articles and surveys that came up with the similar conclusions. Since the majority were mostly in agreement I chose to follow them , yes with zero scientific verification they knew or had no proof posted to prove their conclusions. I mean we are not splitting the atom here. So their list was like this.... Castrol Edge (black or gold) , Mobil 1 EP or / Mobil 1 AFE / Red LIne / Royal Purple. First run was Castrol 0w20 Black / then 0w20 Castrol EP Gold / followed by 0w30 Mobil1 AFE and currently 0w20 Mobil1 EP. Results were: Castrol Black and Castrol Gold 0w20 both turned black almost immediatley and turned thinner with obvious fuel in it. Creeping up on stick as well. Third test was Mobil1 AFE 0w30. Showed very minimal color change. Did not climb on stick or thin. One thing I did not care for was a strange never heard before whine noise for first few miles until full heat up that seemed to be coming from the turbo area. Could not confirm where this strange noise in a near 99% almost silent engine came from. Next and present run is 0w20 Mobil1 EP. After 1st 1000mi this oil has done something never seen in my experience even with the boutique oils I used to run for extended ocis. This 0w20 Mobil1 EP has stayed exactly where it started on the stick and is as clean an almost the same exact color that came out the bottle. No apparent thinning and certainly no signs or smells of fuel dilution. I have about 2500mi to go on this oci. I am looking forward to draining it and sending my sample off to see tje results. Especially the fuel. I know nothing can cure the dilutions caused by design yet some oils seem to clean better or reduce sludge build up and though I cant explain it, slow or reduce dilution. My long time un scientific answer / guess is that maybe some oils seem to fight or prevent the dilution by clinging better and slowing the means of flow that the fuel travels to mix in the oil as fast? Yes I am aware even though I can not detect fuel dilution I know and expect to have it in the sample results. So the jury is still out on how much fuel will be in sample yet I think I have finally settled and like what I am seeing with the new (for me) OTC Mobil1 that at this point I am well pleased with. I have never seen any oil stay this clean looking after 1000mi.

Color is not a very good indication, nor is the feel test between the fingers. Arguably, an oil that turns darker is doing a better job at robbing and retaining dirt and combustion, cleaning sludge and engine grime, and holding it in suspension. Fuel dilution is the car engine's problem, not the oil.

Also, the order you used these could contribute to observations. IOW, if you used them in reverse order, you might very well swap your observations.

In the end, these are billion dollar companies that product exceptional oils and both will serve you equally well provided they meet your engine recommended specifications.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

Color is not a very good indication, nor is the feel test between the fingers. Arguably, an oil that turns darker is doing a better job at robbing and retaining dirt and combustion, cleaning sludge and engine grime, and holding it in suspension. Fuel dilution is the car engine's problem, not the oil.

Also, the order you used these could contribute to observations. IOW, if you used them in reverse order, you might very well swap your observations.

In the end, these are billion dollar companies that product exceptional oils and both will serve you equally well provided they meet your engine recommended specifications.

Agree about dilution is the engine problem. I am just trying to settle on the oil that allows me the longest oci without as much dilution. It is just a strange thing how even using as you say (I agree) exceptional oils why one seems to be affected so fast, thin and turn dark when another seems to stay like it was when poured in longer with the same exact type of use of the car. Oh and I am not doing feel tests. I am sending off the uoa samples for each oci. The stuff I am observing while in no way gives results does clearly show some oils being affected faster than others in different ways. Only thing I know to do is make final choice thru uoa samples while I monitor the fuel. Not with smell test even though one cant mistake the smell of gasoile contaminated oil. Those type things only help me observe how fast things are happending between oci + some uoa. I know I am not going to cure any defect with the car. Just trying to put it thru the least abuse or accelerated wear from thinned oils..

 

[leadcounsel]

Results were: Castrol Black and Castrol Gold 0w20 both turned black almost immediatley and turned thinner with obvious fuel in it. Creeping up on stick as well. Third test was Mobil1 AFE 0w30. Showed very minimal color change.

why one seems to be affected so fast, thin and turn dark when another seems to stay like it was when poured in longer with the same exact type of use of the car.

I finally ran out the "boutique oil I had for my T-GDI diluter before learning i could not go by the oil life meter as if I do I could end up with near extra quart of oil / gas cocktail.

IMO the results are based on the order in which you used premium oils.
You used Castrol for two consequtive OCIs. These did an excellent job cleaning the engine, and they turned black carrying suspended crude out of the engine. After that, you used Mobil1 on a clean engine. Why would it turn black if the Castrol already cleaned it out?

Had you used M1 first on a dirty engine, the results would probably be reversed.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

Color is not a very good indication, nor is the feel test between the fingers. Arguably, an oil that turns darker is doing a better job at robbing and retaining dirt and combustion, cleaning sludge and engine grime, and holding it in suspension. Fuel dilution is the car engine's problem, not the oil.

Also, the order you used these could contribute to observations. IOW, if you used them in reverse order, you might very well swap your observations.

In the end, these are billion dollar companies that product exceptional oils and both will serve you equally well provided they meet your engine recommended specifications.

Yes I mentioned the oil color. Maybe I should not have since that is not the real reason I am liking one oil more than the other. My simple test / observation was mainly about which oil stands up, does not thin out as fast as others. Believe me. Some oils run thru these /this engine thin out much faster than some others (dark or not). Your comments about color and cleaning and the sequence of brand use make perfect sense in regards to cleaning. What I do not get is how can this engine go from clean (or not as dark) one oci to dirty? (or dark another time) when I am on top of it doing short oci. I have been told turbo engines tend to turn oil dark pretty fast not indicating a dirty engine so could one oil have components that slow or prevent the turbo induced darkening. ? I do not know. I am observing and coming to some conclusions but I am going to maintain the car by using uoa and not guessing. Appreciate the input.

 

[4WD]

Well yeah, we should all know by now that no base stands on it's own. If I'm looking for oxidation resistance or long drain capability I think the group IV in general would work better than say a GTL.

Who thinks GTL will not have oxidation issues before PAO … ? Probably not HPL, Amsoil, Redline, or Mobil …
Both can be part of an extended run formula for sure …

 

[Nesterenko]

Who thinks GTL will not have oxidation issues before PAO … ? Probably not HPL, Amsoil, Redline, or Mobil …
Both can be part of an extended run formula for sure …

I said I was looking for oxidation resistance and GTL might not fit the bill as well as PAO. Did you not understand?

 

[Deleted member 89374]

I said I was looking for oxidation resistance and GTL might not fit the bill as well as PAO. Did you not understand?

You can watch the entire video here:

 

[kschachn]

Regardless of the degree of hydrocracking that any GTL based Group III base stock may undergo a PAO is always going to be more resistant to oxidation solely based on the structure of the molecule.

 

[Nesterenko]

Regardless of the degree of hydrocracking that any GTL based Group III base stock may undergo a PAO is always going to be more resistant to oxidation solely based on the structure of the molecule.

Right, that's what I said all along until @4WD seemed to get it twisted.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Regardless of the degree of hydrocracking that any GTL based Group III base stock may undergo a PAO is always going to be more resistant to oxidation solely based on the structure of the molecule.

That's not necessarily true for a finished product.

 

[Jay73]

I use Mobil 1 extended protection 5W30 in my Mazda CX5 Turbo
Used Mobil 1 in my Mercedes Turbo as well with no issues
With that said I'm pretty sure due to the frequency of my oil changes that any decent oil would work fine Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil 1 etc... but I roll with Mobil 1 as haven't had any issues with it in many years of usage.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

I use Mobil 1 extended protection 5W30 in my Mazda CX5 Turbo
Used Mobil 1 in my Mercedes Turbo as well with no issues
With that said I'm pretty sure due to the frequency of my oil changes that any decent oil would work fine Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil 1 etc... but I roll with Mobil 1 as haven't had any issues with it in many years of usage.

It's Mobil 1 Extended Performance, not Protection.

What separates Mobil 1 from the rest is that ExxonMobil is vertically integrated, so they use ANs, Esters, expensive Group III, PAO, and GTL in their formulations, amongst other things. If you want Group III with an add pack dissolved in Group I oil, then buy Valvoline, Castrol, or Pennzoil (this one is gonna be GTL + Group I + add pack dissolved in it).

Amongst the big brands, there is nothing else like Mobil 1.

 

[Shel_B]

Many if not most cooling systems would be froze at -50F if it were not properly set up for that temperature. You would need a 70/30 coolant blend at that temp if
no heater was involved.

You bring up an interesting and important point. I recall reading that the percentage of antifreeze to water in pre-mixed formulations is greater in Canada than in the US. One article I recently read mentioned that 70% figure.

 

[kschachn]

That's not necessarily true for a finished product.

Perhaps, I wouldn’t know about that. I was only speaking of the structure of the hydrocarbon molecule.

 

[Shel_B]

Color is not a very good indication, nor is the feel test between the fingers. Arguably, an oil that turns darker is doing a better job at robbing and retaining dirt and combustion, cleaning sludge and engine grime, and holding it in suspension. Fuel dilution is the car engine's problem, not the oil.

Additives sometimes change color and break down during use. You note that color is not a good indication and then argue that the color change means that the oil is doing a better job at cleaning, etc.