It's all about marketing. Mobil wants you to by their $4.00 oil for $7.00.
Mobil 1 auto oils in motorcycles (moly and clutch slip)
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The mobil tech I've been having email correspondence with seems to classify friction modifiers and antiwear additives as different things as he stated "Mobil1 15W50 is not recommended any longer because zinc and phosphorous levels were decreased and friction modifiers were increased" in regards to why it is no longer reccommend for bike use. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I didnt know mobil ever recommended their 15w50's in mc's, they always pushed the MC stuff. But I wouldn't be surprised if the 15w50 is slightly slipperier than the MXT4, even though the mxt4 has more moly.
Is there componentry in the oil that doesn't show up in the analisys? Seems odd that base oils out of group 5 synthetics as far as the analysis, look similar to other dino oil analysis, even though one knows they definately arent the same.
Makes me think there is some ingrediants not being reported in the analysis's.
I didnt know mobil ever recommended their 15w50's in mc's, they always pushed the MC stuff. But I wouldn't be surprised if the 15w50 is slightly slipperier than the MXT4, even though the mxt4 has more moly.
Is there componentry in the oil that doesn't show up in the analisys? Seems odd that base oils out of group 5 synthetics as far as the analysis, look similar to other dino oil analysis, even though one knows they definately arent the same.
Makes me think there is some ingrediants not being reported in the analysis's.
All I can say is that my '97 Honda 750 has over 57,000 miles I pretty much have used M1 15w/50 (red cap) from day one, and never had any clutch problems. I did install heavy duty clutch springs a few years back, but that was because I installed a one tooth larger countershaft sprocket to lower highway rpm's. This bike is used for long distance rides (saddlesore 1000 and IronButt type) and is loaded with luggage. Once again, here's the link for the 6,000 UOA.
I did install heavy duty clutch springs a few years back, but that was because I installed a one tooth larger countershaft sprocket to lower highway rpm's>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Did your clutch start to slip, or you just did it as a preventative measure?
Did your clutch start to slip, or you just did it as a preventative measure?
There is some indication of possible clutch slippage with Mobil 1 syn oil(minor, and only causing damage over an extended period of time that could run several years), the real danger from these oils is STARTER CLUTCH slippage. This condition would not be noticeable by the rider until the starter suddenly failed.
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"the real danger from these oils is STARTER CLUTCH slippage. This condition would not be noticeable by the rider until the starter suddenly failed."
Where did that come from? can you elaborate on this??
Where did that come from? can you elaborate on this??
I used Mobile 1 15W50 in my RC51 and know of several RC51 and CBR1000 owners that use it with no problems...
Look at the VOA's of Mobile MX4t and it has comparible moly levels to 15W50...As does Amsoils MC specific oil... 80 ppm of moly is not enough for a concern not to mention the many users of redline oils with zero problems...Maybe the friction modifier thing got started when the MX specific oil companies needed a reason for their products to be different and purchased.
After seeing VOA's I don't see any reason for the extra expense for MC specific oils except for the fact that there is a much smaller market for MC oils.
Thanks to internet sites like this one misleading marketing strategies has met it's match when it comes to the educated consumer.
Look at the VOA's of Mobile MX4t and it has comparible moly levels to 15W50...As does Amsoils MC specific oil... 80 ppm of moly is not enough for a concern not to mention the many users of redline oils with zero problems...Maybe the friction modifier thing got started when the MX specific oil companies needed a reason for their products to be different and purchased.
After seeing VOA's I don't see any reason for the extra expense for MC specific oils except for the fact that there is a much smaller market for MC oils.
Thanks to internet sites like this one misleading marketing strategies has met it's match when it comes to the educated consumer.
If it's not the moly in the "API" certified car oils, then what causes the clutches to slip on motorcycles?
I have tried many oils on my bikes and when using cork based clutches I notice clutch slip to the point of failure. All the oils with the API certified label seems to have this effect, but not limited to.
I have no problem using Shell rotella T-synthetic 15-40. This problem will be more evident when using a synthetic oil. For instance, when using mobil-1 10w40 synthetic as well as non synthetic, I will experience clutch slip.
Another interesting factor is when using Delvac 1300 non synthetic the shifts are CLUNKY and stiff. When using rotella T-synthetic they are smooth as a baby butt.
I don't know much about oils, if any. I just know what happens when I use certian oils.
As for harleys not slipping with car synthetics, they don't have that much power in comparison to real *** bikes.
So, what is the reason that car oils tend to make clutches slip?
I have tried many oils on my bikes and when using cork based clutches I notice clutch slip to the point of failure. All the oils with the API certified label seems to have this effect, but not limited to.
I have no problem using Shell rotella T-synthetic 15-40. This problem will be more evident when using a synthetic oil. For instance, when using mobil-1 10w40 synthetic as well as non synthetic, I will experience clutch slip.
Another interesting factor is when using Delvac 1300 non synthetic the shifts are CLUNKY and stiff. When using rotella T-synthetic they are smooth as a baby butt.
I don't know much about oils, if any. I just know what happens when I use certian oils.
As for harleys not slipping with car synthetics, they don't have that much power in comparison to real *** bikes.
So, what is the reason that car oils tend to make clutches slip?
Here's what I know about clutch slippage based on personal experience. The early Suzuki Bandit 1200s slipped on just about any oil. This was a clutch spring design flaw. The newer ones have a beefier spring. Also, many Japanese bikes use low quality materials for OEM clutch springs and tend to sack out after 25-40,000 miles. Barnett and K&G Clutch Factory springs are good replacement options (I have K&G on both my bikes). Improper clutch cable adjustments or air in hydraulic lines can cause slipping. My '82 Kawasaki 750 slips a bit but that's because the plates are glazed (they're getting swapped out in a few months). I'm not worried about it as it's a daily beater and not a burnout machine. I use Mobil 1 15w/50 in my Honda 750 (58,000 miles) and don't have any clutch problems. My '82 Kawa has about 19,000 and I use Castrol 10w/40 or 20w/50. Lube Control also goes in both bikes.
Alot of Redline oil users don't seem to complain .
I just bought a 79 Suziki GS 425E (mini bike
) that has only 12,800 miles on it. I am tring Delo 400 15W40 and havent had any slippage yet. The last oil change was 10W40 Carquest at 11,200 miles but was in 1997. The transmission shifts much more smooth and the engine gained about 50 RPM at idle just with the oil change. This is going to be my 80 mile round trip Carpool/HOV lane cruser for at least 6 months of the year. I used Delo 400 and Rotella 15W40 back in the 80's on my 78 GS 750 with no slippage. DaveJ
I have a copy of the API paper referenced in the MCN article.
It's the most lame technical paper I've ever read. A couple of 4th graders could have done a better job documenting their work.
"real danger" should be read as "it might be possible".
I just laugh, and continue to pour Redline in my bike.
If someone whats a copy of the psuedo tech paper, I'll scan it and send it to them. I'll only do this if you can post it so others can read it.
It's the most lame technical paper I've ever read. A couple of 4th graders could have done a better job documenting their work.
"real danger" should be read as "it might be possible".
I just laugh, and continue to pour Redline in my bike.
If someone whats a copy of the psuedo tech paper, I'll scan it and send it to them. I'll only do this if you can post it so others can read it.
IIRC, the bikes that had the most problems with starter clutches were the older 920 Viragos. I know a friend of mine had to replace at least two in his bike (this was years ago).
Here's a real world modern case of starter clutch issues. I have a 97 Yamaha YZF1000. I used to use Mobil-1 15w-50 then started using the Mobil-1 10w-40 motorcycle oil (MX4T i think) in it. I had no issues what-so-ever that I could notice. Was down in Bike week for Daytona a couple years ago and watched the Superbike race on the last Sunday and went to my bike to leave when the race was over and hit the starter button and it just spun without turning the engine. I had to push start the bike and ride the 5 hours home. Anytime I tried to use the starter, it would just spin. I changed the oil the day after i got home to some cheap off the shelf 10w-40 and starter worked great and my bike would start. I then decided to try Mobil-1 15w-50 again an immediately, my starter would just spin. So cheap oil went in again and then I ordered some Motul. The bike would start with the Motul but it would occasionally give brief moments of starter clutch slippage. Finally, I said screw it and started running the Chevron Delo 400 15w-40 that I also used in my Cummins N14 and the starter has ZERO issues with it. Btw, this was the old Chevron Delo 400 prior to the reformulation with Moly. I havn't tried the new Moly fortified stuff yet. I think I am just gonna start using Shell Rotella 5w-40 instead. So basically, don't assume it can't happen to your "modern" bikes because it can.
Hammer
Mobil is in business to make a profit. They know that if they charged $8 per quart for 15W-50 "car" oil, people wouldn't buy it for their cars but M/C riders would. It's all marketing.
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