Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30; Have cold weather specs been downgraded?

[OVERKILL]

Don't know about you, but -40 degs C or F is awfully darn cold. Very few places in the Lower-48 see those temps. OTOH, Interior and the North Slope of Alaska see those temps regularly, but not Anchorage area or SE Alaska. Portions of Canada see those temps, but they are not overly populated.

IMHO, 0W oils aptly apply in Fairbanks, while 5W oils apply in Anchorage and surrounding areas, to include most of the Lower-48 states (the exceptions being northern MN and ND). In Palmer, AK (55-miles northeast of Anchorage) I run QSFS (QSUD) 5W-30 in the winter. We see -32 and -33 degs F on occasion, though it's rare. I've made occasional forays into Interior Alaska and my LS engine Chevy truck has done well at -35 degs F on QSUD.

Keep in mind oils are allowed to slip a winter rating in service, so a 0w-xx can become a 5w-xx and a 5w-xx can become a 10w-xx. That's one of the reasons I am inclined toward oils with more PAO in the base oil blend, as they aren't reliant on PPD's to retain their cold temperature performance, meaning it is less likely to degrade in service.

 

[SteveG4]

Keep in mind oils are allowed to slip a winter rating in service, so a 0w-xx can become a 5w-xx and a 5w-xx can become a 10w-xx. That's one of the reasons I am inclined toward oils with more PAO in the base oil blend, as they aren't reliant on PPD's to retain their cold temperature performance, meaning it is less likely to degrade in service.

I can't imagine QSUD slipping a winter grade in a half-ton pickup truck that isn't worked to death like a North Slope truck. It is still my babied POV.

 

[OVERKILL]

I can't imagine QSUD slipping a winter grade in a half-ton pickup truck that isn't worked to death.

It's the PPD's in waxy base oils that lose their effectiveness at mitigating wax crystal formation thus bringing up the cloud point and gelation point of the blend. Since QSUD is blended with GTL it will inherently have better cold temp performance than some less expensive Group III bases, but it is still reliant on PDD's to achieve its cold temperature performance, this is unlike PAO which has no wax in it at all which is why PAO-based oils tend to have insanely low pour points, which is about the only real use for Pour Point lol

 

[SteveG4]

It's the PPD's in waxy base oils that lose their effectiveness at mitigating wax crystal formation thus bringing up the cloud point and gelation point of the blend. Since QSUD is blended with GTL it will inherently have better cold temp performance than some less expensive Group III bases, but it is still reliant on PDD's to achieve its cold temperature performance.

I'll defer to your knowledge in this area.

Yet, QSUD performs and has for years in a stark environment. I was sold on it years ago.

Next stop for me are the more popular 0W-40 choices like Mobil 1 or Castrol. I'd like to know more about their cold weather performance.

 

[OVERKILL]

I'll defer to your knowledge in this area. Yet, QSUD performs and has for years in a stark environment. I'm sold.

Next stop for me are the more popular 0W-40 choices like Mobil 1 or Castrol. I'd like to know more about their cold weather performance.

I don't expect you'd experience it, my impression is that CCS slips before MRV and the MRV limit is VERY generous for most applications so as long as your starter and battery are good, while cranking might be a bit slow (CCS), the oil will still pump. That's why CCS and MRV are measured at two separate temperatures, CCS is the more sensitive parameter.

What would you like to know about the Euro 0w-40's? They meet the 0W-xx Winter designation so they pass both CCS and MRV requirements for that rating.

 

[SteveG4]

I don't expect you'd experience it, my impression is that CCS slips before MRV and the MRV limit is VERY generous for most applications so as long as your starter and battery are good, while cranking might be a bit slow (CCS), the oil will still pump. That's why CCS and MRV are measured at two separate temperatures, CCS is the more sensitive parameter.

What would you like to know about the Euro 0w-40's? They meet the 0W-xx Winter designation so they pass both CCS and MRV requirements for that rating.

Without the detailed background you possess, I have recently assumed, and correctly it appears, that CCS was the more valued specification.

My assumption is that both of my cheap and now older Chevy's would benefit (not suffer one iota) from either Mobil or Castrol 0W-40 oils.

Next stop it seems...

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Save the name calling for recess on the playground.

Tell us more about how you sense PAO content with your light inline 4 tin can with a stick shift.
Is it a feeling in the shifter?
A feeling through the seat?
Maybe the sound?
Something else???

Can you provide specifics as to how whatever this feeling is then correlates to PAO content?

Thanks!

This is recess on the playground, if you haven't noticed.

The Answer is: yes, yes, yes, yes.

And I'm discussing the classic, though likely imperfect majority PAO synthetics of old.
You know that 70%+ blend.

You likely have not installed this oil in over two decades; way back in the API - SJ / SL era.

Tell all the 100's of folks on here that Magnatec isnt smoother, or the love for old Formula Shell with tons of moly.
You can't feel it - its all in your head. Just your Imagination.

The Classic PAO formulas had their own attributes and down falls. I think I only had one or two cars / engines that would tolerate that oil; many I tried it and I had to dump it.

One that loved it was a fragile Mitsubishi with the 1.5L. That engine loved that oil.

I had a VW fox in the late 80's ( with the 1.8L and Bosch KE) and the Owners Manual prohibited Synthetic oil.
Now why do you think that was?

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

...

I had a VW fox in the late 80's ( with the 1.8L and Bosch KE) and the Owners Manual prohibited Synthetic oil.
Now why do you think that was?

Sometime in the late 90's or early 2000's I was thinking of buying a Golf and used to go to a local small VW dealer for parts for my father's 79' Bug. I spoke at length with a parts and service who guy was an older gentleman from Germany originally and had been there forever. I asked about using syn in the Beetle as many advised against it back then. I think he said the motorcycle stuff would be okay. He then said if I do buy a new VW, do not use synthetic right away and let the car seat in for at least 10,000 miles as he said there had been issues in the 70's-90's with "high speed glazing" on the cylinder walls and the engine would never be right after that. IDK if maybe it was related to that....

 

[ARCOgraphite]

....I spoke at length with a parts and service who guy ...do not use synthetic right away and let the car seat in for at least 10,000 miles as he said there had been issues in the 70's-90's with "high speed glazing" on the cylinder walls and the engine would never be right after that. ... .

I would guess its more of a seal compatibility issue. Synthetic oil could be many things: Polyolester, PAO, Plant and animal fat based esters. Today's fully synthetic oils are NOT, they are typically just syn blends to exceed ILSAC min specs. But obviously an oil doesn't have to be a majority synthetic to pass fairly rigorous certification. I never thought synthetic was automatically better at ALL things. ELF in racing oil development stated teams had better luck with synthetic blends. Oil blending is a compromise.

Some of these base oils could soften seals or embrittle polymer guides - and they could fail early. I am sure VW didnt want to pay for the most expensive gasketing on their Third World engines to accommodate a 5% customer base who might want to run synthetic. Plus the 1.8 was low specific output, dry belt drive OHC and as easy on oil as anything could be.

The break in issue remains; and slickifiers in modern oils can protract full break in.
GM still recommends against it in many of it's crate engines until after so many hours or wear in.
- Ken