Mobil 1 0w-40 HT/HS

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quote:

Originally posted by Primus:

Sorry, but could somebody clarify why shear is so big issue for car enthusiasts in USA and Canada ? Do we drive different cars or use different oils ?


Yes, we drive different cars(small engines) and use different weight of oils. ( all these in general).
From this point of view drivers in USA don't have to push their engines so much - also,big engines are more > to the oil -and they can use lighter oils.
 
quote:

Sorry, but could somebody clarify why shear is so big issue for car enthusiasts in USA and Canada ? Do we drive different cars or use different oils ?

I think I may be at fault, at least if it comes to the neverending HT/HS discussion.
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I was the one who pointed out that Audi has very specific requirements regarding the oil if the car is driven Europe, while they are vague about what to use in the US. I quote from my '96 manual:

"Due to the higher speeds permitted in Europe, use only the following good quality oils or high performance oils while operating your vehicle in Europe.... If these oils are not available, the oils mentioned in the Owner's Manual can be used in an exceptional case."

The biggest difference I found in oil specs seemed to be the minimum requirement in HT/HS, and therefore I concluded I want an oil that does meet the tougher European specs. That's what opened this can of worms, I think.
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Yannis, Moribundman,
Thanks for clarifications. Now I see the issue is right choice of HT/HS, and only then the shear stability related to the loss of kinematic viscosity.

Moribundman,
It's evident that your nice car is well maintained. Given your drive style and outside temperatures oil consumption is quite low. It means you used good oil and may expect relatively low wear (so not clear why you have decided to switch from 5W-50 to 0W-40). I would not deny a possibility that your usual high RPM helped you (to certain extend) to drive safely with 0W-40: if the wear is not big and oil pump works well, then at high RPM the shape and motion generates oil pressure and lubricating fluid film separates metal surfaces. This is so-called hydrodynamic lubrication. In addition, if the oil has low viscosity, but thick enough, it runs quicker and cools better. Lower oil temperature causes a consequent rise of oil viscosity. Probably it was your case with 0W-40 (that's why I said "to certain extend"). But once this will not work in such tough conditions even with reliable Mobil1 0W-40, moreover the car, though well maintained, is not like a virgin.

Now OEM requirements, think Audi specifies VW 502.00 or 501.01 oils for your car where HS/HS > 3.5 and following SAE grades:

5W-40, 10W-40 till + 15 C
5W-50, 10W-50 over + 40 C
10W-60 over + 40 C
15W-40,15W-50 over + 40 C

Usually synthetic oil provides better viscosity at high temperatures then the next higher mineral viscosity grade, so many users would be satisfied with 5W-40 synthetic. However, majority of latest 5W-40 formulations have HT/HS only 3.55-3.85 to pass Energy Conserving credentials. Thus there is no a big difference with 0W-40.

To be on safety side I would chose something with HT/HS about 4 or higher. My personal preferences in your case would be:

Total Quartz Racing 10W-50 HT/HS 4.5
Mobil1 15W-50 HT/HS 5.1
Castrol 5W-50 HT/HS 4.2 ?
Mobil1 5W-50 HT/HS 4.2
Castrol TWS 10W-60

Think that Redline 10W-40 would work too, but over their cite info I have not found something proving it outperform other oils. And don't forget to check first its compatibility with elastomers.

As for Pentosynth 5W-40, unfortunately I cannot make comments about it. If you decide to use 5W-40, check also Agip TechSint or HTS 5W-40. they should be available in USA.

I suppose if you consider all pro and con, you will stick with Mobil1 15W-50, known, reliable and available everywhere. Plus, you will have a chance to play with 15W-50 and 10W-30 grades, if you need something ligher for so called winter.

Yannis,
Sorry not to reply yet to your question about 300V. I was not fully satisfied, but for other reasons. Would we discuss and exchange with our info creating a special 300V topic ?
 
Primus,

Thank you for your thoughtful post and valuable input.

You are wondering why I stopped using the Castrol Syntec 5W-50? Well, back in '96 I wasn't aware of the fact that this was a hydro-cracked oil. I was under the impression that I was buying a real full synthetic oil. I don't feel like supporting Castrol's marketing scheme.
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As far as oil choices go, the M1 15W-50 is available almost everywhere, so it's convenient.

Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 may be another decent oil with a slightly higher (3.9) HTHS than M1 0W-40. This oil is also widely available. The only thing that worries me is the higher amount of detergent (it's primarily an oil for diesel egines, though they also say it's for high performance gas engines). I'm afraid the detergents might foul the spark plugs.

Lubro Moly and Pentosynth 5W-40 are popular with VW/Audi owners, but they have to be ordered and are bit more expensive than Mobil. I'm not sure about the HTHS of iether oil, but they do meet VW502.00, so their HTHS must be 3.5 or better.

I have never seen Total Quartz Racing 10W-50, Mobil 1 5W-50, or Agip TechSint in the US.

[ August 04, 2003, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]
 
M'Man,

Agip Synthetic PC 5W40 is available in the US from Agip US in Pennsylvania. It is a whole synthetic and I am awaiting a sampling kit from Blackstone to do a VOA on it...I got a case (12 qts) of it. Price per quart is excellent but shipping is a little steep.

[ August 04, 2003, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by Primus:
Would we discuss and exchange with our info creating a special 300V topic ?

I don't think anybody else has tried this oil here
 
quote:

mobil delvac 1 is not rated at hths 3.9 it is 4.1 and red line 5w 40 is 4.8

The source I found online said it had HTHS 3.9. I can't find any info on the Mobil site. Can someone please show me a current spec sheet for Delvac 5w-40?
 
another good oil you could use is Kendall fully synthetic 5w-40 oil and its the only one thats (in their brand) a full PAO oil. i used it this past spring in my 02 protege5 and it worked great. thinking of using it after i use the 10 litres of LM 0w-40 i got for $10 a piece.

also, i think, but im not sure, that the Kendall has a higher HTHS than M1 0w-40 and its vis. @ 100C is right at the same i belive. and its less than $4 a quart! and its w/in 10 miles of me too!! I paid like $21 includ' tax for 6 qts.

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im gonna prolly try the Agip 5w-40 or their 5w-50 EuroSports oil though in my 00' Golf GL 1.8T. What do y'all think? M1 15w-50 or 5w-50 okay for this engine w/ 30K miles in Georgia heat?
 
Chris,

I'm still awaiting my sampling kit from the lab so I can do the VOA on Agip Synthetic PC 5W40. Apparently they have been out of them.
 
How about Unocal 76 Pure Synthetic Oil 5W-40 ? HT/HS is 3.86 in SL (it was 4.0 in SJ) and OEMs approvals: BMW LL, MB 229.3, VW 502.00, 505.00, Porsche
 
Primus, I'd appreciate your knowledgable input. I have a 2002 Audi allroad (USA) with the 2.7t engine. The owners manual specifies 0w30, 5w30, 0w40 or 5w40, but does not say what VW or ACEA specifications the oil must meet. My research indicates that oils meeting VW 503.00 or 503.01 are acceptable, but I gather that the higher HT/HS 503.01 spec. oils are preferred.

I ran 10,000 miles with M1 0w30 with good UOA results, and am now running M1 0w40.

My question: Is an oil with a high HT/HS preferable in this engine? Do you know what VW specification these engines are to meet, as I'm unsure. What oil do you recommend for this twin-turbo engine?

Thank-you for generously sharing your knowledge.
 
Williar,

I have a 2002 Audi TT with the same oil spec ....you want to use a VW 502 or ACEA A3/B4 type oil in this application.

TooSlick
 
Williar,

VW503.00 and VW503.01 are mutually exclusive oil specs. One cannot be substituted with the other. US Audi engines are not prepared to use VW503.00 (low HTHS) oil. VW503.01 oil is probably fine, as long as the normal drain interval is maintained. As Too Slick said, the best would be to use an oil that meets VW502.00.
 
You're right VW 503.00 & 503.01 are mutually exclusive (low HT/HS vs high HT/HS). Thanks for confirming my thinking that high HT/HS is the way to go for the current 2.7t as Audi N.A. is unclear on this. Looks like that limits me to M1 0w40 or German Castrol 0w30 for this engine for OTC oils available in the USA. I've yet to find the German Castrol in the Pacific Northwest, so that really narrows it down!
 
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