MMO Marvel Mystery oil Brings down Piper Aircraft

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'd like to give Kreen a shot on your recommendations here. I just need something that really needs to be cleaned up. That could be coming soon if my parents get a new car and I take theirs for my son. I haven't done anything to their car in the 10 years they own it. I'd love to see how the local garage cheap oil and cheap filter changes did in it.
 
Boraticus - Of course running an engine without MMO won't kill it. It's not a crucial component. However, in some engines, depending on condition and cleanliness, things like MMO can help with certain problems. Is it guaranteed to help? Of course not. However, if there's an issue that MMO may help, it's cheap enough (under $5/quart) that it's worth a try.
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Any oil will do what it's supposed to do because if you don't have oil in the engine, it will die in short order. Therefore your logic is flawed. Oil sells because oil is needed.

MMO and other additives do not provide distinctive, tangible and verifiable functions that lubricants do. Leave the MMO out of the engine and what will happen? NOTHING. Leave the oil out and see what happens.

Therein lies the difference between a product of real function and that of a product with numerous claims but no scientific or verifiable proof that it works.

Your comparison of an additive such as MMO to that of an essential such as oil, is basically a continuation of the marketing theme for fuel/oil additives. Smoke and mirrors no substance.

Despite the fact that your argument does not and cannot support the functionality of fuel/oil additives, it is incumbent upon those who know that it's questionable at best, to enlighten anyone who might think that fuel/oil additives will save the day. Regular basic maintenance, use of decent quality oil, clean air filter, oil filter and fuel filters and uncontaminated fuel will go a long way to keep an engine running strong and long.

Look at the main ingredient in all of these additives. Naptha in one form or another. Then throw in some "eye of newt oil" a little marketing razzmatazz and there you go, the recipe for snake oil.


Another red herring. If we based our purchasing decisions only on things absolutely needed for survival (whether of cars or otherwise), about 90% of all companies producing goods and services would go belly up over night.

Are the additives I use absolutely essential - no, they are not. Have I noticed benefits from using them though - absolutely, which is why I have a small list of additives I re-use as needed.

It follows from that that nobody else 'needs' them either; however equating necessity with improvement is where you miss the mark completely. When I bought my 10 year old Corolla in May, which but for one overdue OC in 10 years, and every other one done well ahead of OEM spec, I did the following:

- replaced a gummed up PCV valve ($12);
- cleaned the throttle body;
- replaced the air filter;
- cleaned the battery of deposits, greased the terminal and reclamped it;
- cleaned the contacts on the mass air flow sensor.
- ran a tank of Regane
- added MMO (20 oz total in two doses) to PP 5W30

As not many shops, including the ones the previous owner visited regularly (dealer exclusively for 8 years), do the above, the difference now versus when I bought it is night and day. I haven't completely turned the clock back a decade, but I definitely improved its responsiveness, acceleration, and its meeting or beating the EPA consistently.

None of the above was essential, and though the additives didn't do all the above, they did their share. Not essential, but the above list was certainly beneficial. Also required next to nothing by way of cost or time.

-Spyder
 
Last edited:
I should add too, that though I never diagnosed the culprit, when I first bought the car, it would not start on the first turn of the key. It would instead die immediately most of the time. After a restart, if idled at least a good half minute (even in warmer, above 10C weather), it would usually go ok - usually, in that sometimes it would stumble, lose power, and stall. It was worse if any accessories were on (compressor, defrost, fan, headlights, etc)

I did nothing to specifically address that issue, but it is gone. We've had temps all week between -5 and 0C and the car starts first turn, every time, with no hesitation, stumbling, or impact from accessory usage. Once the RPM drops below 1,500, it goes - and there is no stall or hesitation then either.

The elbow grease jobs I did helped, but didn't cure it; the only things I've done since were additive based, and the issue is gone. Go figure.

Of course, I didn't 'need' to cure this problem, as with enough restarts and a long enough idle time, it would go eventually. I do much prefer it this way, however, with the issue solved.

And with that, I'm done with you and your skepticism. Go ahead, don't use it - you don't need to explain to us why. Really who cares. My additive usage has addressed problems I've had, I know they worked, and as I'm the one doing my own maintenance, I hardly need to prove anything to you.

And with that I'm out. My advice to others is that dignifying this guy's points, all of which have been answered 1,000 times before, is a collective waste of our time as he is just going to come back with something else asked answered 1,000 times already in other threads.

-Spyder
 
Last edited:
If it indeed has no substance, why is it being blamed for this downed aircraft?

Either way, I view your argument invalid.

Too much testimony has been laid before us here.

I believe many of these additives have been cast aside as not enough tangible proof, but particular products do work and some even do as claimed.
 
Originally Posted By: bigmike
Too much testimony has been laid before us here.

I believe many of these additives have been cast aside as not enough tangible proof, but particular products do work and some even do as claimed.


bigmike: You pretty much nailed it, there are a lot of products making off the wall claims, and playing meaningless numbers games. Then there are products that actually have some value and have helped resolve issues saving people money. The problem is this, some people feel because a product did nothing for them the product failed, when in fact their neglected engine is in need of repair that they don't want to make. Then there are products that are marketed well and are truly garbage, as a result all additives are considered snake oil, and worthless.

In a perfect world if everyone followed the OM, and the oil companies truly made the very best oil they could, making sludge and wear non-existant, not being profit motivated there would be no need for special additives. The world isn't perfect, sludge and wear are very real, something people want to reduce or eliminate, and oil companies put profits and cost cutting at the top of their lists there will be a market for additives.

These discussions will never end.....................
 
All I have to say is:

There's science, which I choose to believe in, then there's science fiction.

It's abundantly clear where the line divides.

Next time one of you fuel additive believers have an abnormality that will be remedied by a fuel additive, substitute it with naptha, kerosene or diesel fuel and see what happens.
 
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
In some cases, one of those very well may have a similar effect.


This is true, but then try adding it to your engine oil if you have a lifter tick, or need some cleaning and run a 5000 mile OCI. NOT!
 
Exactly. That's why I said "in some cases". MMO has more lubricating ability than those, so for long term use in oil, it's certainly much safer.
 
There's one other bonus gained from using MMO that I don't think anyone has mentioned as of yet - It smells good too!
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: helix_rider
Well, I think this topic (based on the official report) has finally done it for the MMO Supporters.

On the contrary, I have yet to see one verified report, anywhere, of anyone who has used MMO in recommended amounts that has led to engine damage. This aviation report does nothing to change my mind. As others have pointed out, the dose applied to the fuel was extremely high (1 qt MMO to 18 gallons fuel, where the recommended amount would have been less than 8 oz MMO). You can't blame the product for gross user mistakes. That would be like blaming Michelin for bad tires because they blew out when inflated to 80 psi. Who would fault the product when that happened? Or lets go back and blame McDonald's for serving coffee hot enough to burn a lap when a clumsy customer spills it on himself. Is it really the fault of the product?

Vic
 
I was being sarcastic. I read the details and it's complete Bovine Feces. Sorry if you took my comment the wrong way. With the graphic I posted I was sure that everyone would know I was joking and having a little fun.
 
Originally Posted By: VicL
Originally Posted By: helix_rider
Well, I think this topic (based on the official report) has finally done it for the MMO Supporters.

On the contrary, I have yet to see one verified report, anywhere, of anyone who has used MMO in recommended amounts that has led to engine damage. This aviation report does nothing to change my mind. As others have pointed out, the dose applied to the fuel was extremely high (1 qt MMO to 18 gallons fuel, where the recommended amount would have been less than 8 oz MMO). You can't blame the product for gross user mistakes. That would be like blaming Michelin for bad tires because they blew out when inflated to 80 psi. Who would fault the product when that happened? Or lets go back and blame McDonald's for serving coffee hot enough to burn a lap when a clumsy customer spills it on himself. Is it really the fault of the product?

Vic


+1

As I mentioned a while back, stupidity brought the Piper down.
 
The s*t hitting the fan was not obviously sarcastic to me..... although its a bit like something I would say too.
grin.gif


This whole thread is like one big
23.gif


and rapidly getting to the point of
18.gif


Vic
 
I see several things wrong with this.

1. The boob that poured that much MMO in the 18 gal tank.
2. That the boob poured any MMO in the tank at all.
3. It is not FAA approved for that application or any application.
4. Even MMO says it is not FAA approved and to not use it in aircraft.

It's pretty simple. Read the directions on the back of the can and follow the manufactures recommendations, only.
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny
I see several things wrong with this.

1. The boob that poured that much MMO in the 18 gal tank.
2. That the boob poured any MMO in the tank at all.
3. It is not FAA approved for that application or any application.
4. Even MMO says it is not FAA approved and to not use it in aircraft.

It's pretty simple. Read the directions on the back of the can and follow the manufactures recommendations, only.


+1 But it is fuel for the additive antis to run with, and entertainment for me on a rather gloomy day here in NY.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top