Midsize truck shopping

[UncleDave]

My point is that there are more capable unibody suv's out there than the ridgline, and even that suv can't begin to compare to towing with my truck.


Yes it is AWD. When engaged, it has a RWD bias with clutches that dynamically (within ms) apply varying levels of torque to the front axles. It is different from 4hi in that there is no binding on pavement through corners.


Solid axle trucks are extremely comfortable these days, especially coil suspensions like the Ram. "rides like a truck" just tells me you haven't spent significant amount of time in modern trucks. The Ram even has air suspension, the GM trucks have something advanced too, "magnaride" or whatever they call it.


My truck has IFS, not a solid front axle. And yes, you need to look at the complete setup, as I said even the coils are significant improvement over leafpads and the Ram has had 4 corner air for years now. Combine that with larger sidewall tires than the ridgeline... I guarantee you these have better ride over bumps/crummy pavement then your ridgeline, not even close.


Ok that's nice, I have goodyear's on my truck and they are probably available on your ridgeline though probably a smaller size. You don't need 10 ply tires.



You're welcome to your truck, I'm just arguing the facts not the preference. If you really like the small size then that's simply what you prefer and nothing more to be said. Saying its a better towing truck up to 5000 pounds is just nonsense.

I never disagreed there aren't more capable SUV's from a towing perspective, the thread isnt about SUVs though so this is just a tangent you took.

No auto 4WD is not AWD - it has to detect slippage before it engages, then it has to disengage at some point. The Ridgeline bias's the rear as well by I think 3%.

Bilsteins aren't tires, they are shocks.

You didn't ask If I had ram experience, I do. I think the Ram rides the best of the solid axle trucks,
I've said this here in other threads. I really like the ram.
It does not ride as well as an IRS vehicle.

Im speaking from experience on which I would chose for what tasks, and I own both.

You have zero actual experience with the ridgeline correct?

 

[JTK]

The new Silverado looks like a scaled up Ridgeline. Interesting its neither Unibody nor body on frame.

The new Silverado 1500 isn't full body on frame?

 

[UncleDave]

The new Silverado 1500 isn't full body on frame?

Sorry Silverado EV. ("New" was a little too opaque)

It's neither a BOF or unibody, but a hybrid of the two using the battery as a stressed member.

 

[hemioiler]

I never disagreed there aren't more capable SUV's from a towing perspective, the thread isnt about SUVs though so this is just a tangent you took.

I made the point that my GC, which is a small unibody SUV with more towing performance than your ridgeline, cannot compete with my truck on towing literally anything.

No auto 4WD is not AWD - it has to detect slippage before it engages, then it has to disengage at some point. The Ridgeline bias's the rear as well by I think 3%.

No, in my truck auto keeps some percentage of torque constantly applied to the front. It does not have to wait for slippage, it does not have to disengage, it uses several different sensors (like whether you're accelerating hard, turning corners, traction loss etc), plus whatever drive mode you have selected. If you select a snow or "baja" mode its going to keep much more torque to the front vs other modes. This is a clutch based system and its constantly varying the torque to the front based on what it thinks it needs, it reacts in milliseconds.

You can see this if you watch any reviewer put the truck in auto and stomp on the gas. It's how they get better 0 to 60 times, no traction loss.

Bilsteins aren't tires, they are shocks.

You didn't ask If I had ram experience, I do. I think the Ram rides the best of the solid axle trucks,
I've said this here in other threads. I really like the ram.
It does not ride as well as an IRS vehicle.

It rides differently. Ride quality isn't a single metric. In some areas its worse, in some its better. It will handle rough roads better, soaks up the bumps, it has more shock travel, its less jarring. But yes you will notice a little more "activity" when its unloaded, but when you put a load on it it handles the load far better than the ridgeline regardless if they share similar payload.

Have you owned the 4 corner air suspension?

Im speaking from experience on which I would chose for what tasks, and I own both.

You have zero actual experience with the ridgeline correct?

Incorrect. I've towed a zero turn on a small utility trailer and it was kind of ridiculous both from acceleration and stability and braking, my truck doesn't even know its back there. I've also based my opinion on reviews, some of which are towing, specs on the truck (these are objectively minimal, like I said there are similar sized suvs with more tow rating), the owners manual warning about keep speed down below 55 mph. It's all lightweight stuff. Any midsize truck would be an improvement on the ridgeline in every metric other than perhaps turning radius, I don't remember how well the ridgeline turns. It's not just my opinion, watch some towing reviews.

 

[UncleDave]

I made the point that my GC, which is a small unibody SUV with more towing performance than your ridgeline, cannot compete with my truck on towing literally anything.



No, in my truck auto keeps some percentage of torque constantly applied to the front. It does not have to wait for slippage, it does not have to disengage, it uses several different sensors (like whether you're accelerating hard, turning corners, traction loss etc), plus whatever drive mode you have selected. If you select a snow or "baja" mode its going to keep much more torque to the front vs other modes. This is a clutch based system and its constantly varying the torque to the front based on what it thinks it needs, it reacts in milliseconds.

You can see this if you watch any reviewer put the truck in auto and stomp on the gas. It's how they get better 0 to 60 times, no traction loss.



It rides differently. Ride quality isn't a single metric. In some areas its worse, in some its better. It will handle rough roads better, soaks up the bumps, it has more shock travel, its less jarring. But yes you will notice a little more "activity" when its unloaded, but when you put a load on it it handles the load far better than the ridgeline regardless if they share similar payload.

Have you owned the 4 corner air suspension?



Incorrect. I've towed a zero turn on a small utility trailer and it was kind of ridiculous both from acceleration and stability and braking, my truck doesn't even know its back there. I've also based my opinion on reviews, some of which are towing, specs on the truck (these are objectively minimal, like I said there are similar sized suvs with more tow rating), the owners manual warning about keep speed down below 55 mph. It's all lightweight stuff. Any midsize truck would be an improvement on the ridgeline in every metric other than perhaps turning radius, I don't remember how well the ridgeline turns. It's not just my opinion, watch some towing reviews.

We wont change each others minds. Thats Ok.

The 2020 I drove, and the Dodge video that explains how their automatic 4WD works says it doesn't engage until it senses traction loss.

Maybe Dodge changed how it works?

25-32 seconds.

 

[hemioiler]

We wont change each others minds. Thats Ok.

No we won't, apparently, but again I'm arguing facts. You're saying things that are factually untrue.

The 2020 I drove, and the Dodge video that explains how their automatic 4WD works says it doesn't engage until it senses traction loss.

Maybe Dodge changed how it works?

25-32 seconds.

Don't believe the marketing, believe Doug Killian from Ram, an actual engineer (video below). . Something like a TRX or RHO described in the video has a more advanced transfer case with some more aggressive drive modes, but the simpler trims work similarly using varying levels of pressure on those clutches. You can get lost in the weeds trying to force distinctions between AWD or 4WD but it's basically marketing at this point. If you want proof, look at the dodge durango which calls it "AWD" and the jeep grand cherokee "lardeo" (base trim) which calls it 4x4 and they have literally the same hardware underneath. The Jeep also has a much more advanced system in more expensive trims, but the laredo and durango are identical.

And you don't have to believe the engineer either, just take a 4wd auto for a romp in a parking lot with snow.




Edit: and just for grins, here is a surprisingly great chatgpt summary of how the bw 48-11 (found in my truck) actually works:

The BorgWarner 48-11 transfer case in the Ram 1500 is part of the vehicle’s full-time four-wheel-drive system, typically found in models equipped with the “Auto” mode of 4WD. This transfer case works by managing the torque split between the front and rear axles to provide optimal traction without needing to wait for slippage.

In detail, the 48-11 transfer case uses a combination of a viscous coupling and an electronic clutch. It’s designed to automatically engage the front axle when needed, but instead of waiting for noticeable slippage like some traditional on-demand systems, it continuously adjusts the torque split based on real-time driving conditions.

Here's how it works:

1. Torque Split Management: In the Auto mode, the transfer case will vary the amount of torque sent to the front axle. Under normal conditions, the majority of the torque is directed to the rear wheels, but when the system detects a loss of traction (like when the rear wheels start slipping), it will send more torque to the front axle. This happens smoothly and without interruption.
2. Viscous Coupling & Electronic Clutch: The viscous coupling allows for the smooth transfer of torque between the front and rear axles. If the system senses a significant difference in wheel speeds (for example, the rear wheels slipping), the electronic clutch can engage and send more power to the front axle. The process is more seamless and quicker than waiting for outright slippage to occur.
3. Constant Adjustment: Unlike part-time systems that only engage 4WD when slippage is detected, the 48-11 transfer case continuously monitors traction and adjusts the front/rear torque split. This allows for a more efficient and responsive drivetrain, especially in situations where the road conditions are changing frequently (like wet, icy, or muddy surfaces).

In short, it doesn’t wait for noticeable slippage but rather constantly varies the torque split to improve traction as needed, keeping the vehicle’s handling and stability optimized in changing conditions.

 

[UncleDave]

No we won't, apparently, but again I'm arguing facts. You're saying things that are factually untrue.



Don't believe the marketing, believe Doug Killian from Ram, an actual engineer (video below). . Something like a TRX or RHO described in the video has a more advanced transfer case with some more aggressive drive modes, but the simpler trims work similarly using varying levels of pressure on those clutches. You can get lost in the weeds trying to force distinctions between AWD or 4WD but it's basically marketing at this point. If you want proof, look at the dodge durango which calls it "AWD" and the jeep grand cherokee "lardeo" (base trim) which calls it 4x4 and they have literally the same hardware underneath. The Jeep also has a much more advanced system in more expensive trims, but the laredo and durango are identical.

And you don't have to believe the engineer either, just take a 4wd auto for a romp in a parking lot with snow.




Edit: and just for grins, here is a surprisingly great chatgpt summary of how the bw 48-11 (found in my truck) actually works:

I'm not arguing, Im stating a preference based on my experience, you disagree, we'll agree to disagree.

This guy taks about the diff between 48-11 and the 48-12.

At 3:00-3:25 He says the downside of the 48-11 is its continual engaging and disengaging based on loss of traction.

 

[supton]

Other than learning that the only truck worth owning is a 1 ton diesel dually, is the OP any closer to a decision? Am trying to live precariously through other's vehicle buying choices here.

 

[hemioiler]

I'm not arguing, Im stating a preference based on my experience, you disagree, we'll agree to disagree.

You're making the claim that the ridgeline is better at towing, that it has better awd/4x4, that a half ton doesn't ride as well etc etc. I pointed out several facts which says you're wrong, or at the least, cherry picking: the ridgeline can't even tow a TT > 55 mph, it has far less GVWR, far less RAWR; half tons have air/more advanced suspension, seats sit higher in the cabin, much roomier interior for both driver and rear passengers, far more luxurious, massaging seats, higher tech and more of it (camera systems for towing) and on and on.

This guy taks about the diff between 48-11 and the 48-12.

At 3:00-3:25 He says the downside of the 48-11 is its continual engaging and disengaging based on loss of traction.

Watch the video again to see what actually happens? The front tires are literally hopping/binding as he turns.

The 48-11 does not disengage fully, even when steering is fully locked on dry pavement. It doesn't engage/disengage based on loss of traction, but it will disengage if it's "abused" in serious offroad enviroments like rock crawling and when the system gets too hot it will protect itself.

The 48-12 does not have an auto system, it's on/off (so only 4hi and 4low) and does not vary the pressure on the clutches. However it's a stronger system, since it uses chains and not clutches, it's better suited for heavy offroading.

The 48-11 is better suited for normal use, in my almost 6 years of ownership I've never had it disengage on me, whether I'm backing up my heavy RV up a campsite on wet grass, driving for hours in snow covered roads etc. It's been flawless.

There are other offroad features in a half ton that you can't find in the ridgeline, like locking rear diff (or limited slip), and a true low speed transfer case. Or even something as obvious as engine torque, a v8 has gobs of it low down and doesn't need to rev high; the 8 speed ZF transmission has an incredibly deep first gear ratio of 5.0:1, and an available 3.92 rear axle ratio (basically a stump puller).

Combined all that and there is no question that the 4x4 system in a typical half ton is in a different league vs a ridgeline. Sorry man, its just facts.

 

[UncleDave]

You're making the claim that the ridgeline is better at towing, that it has better awd/4x4, that a half ton doesn't ride as well etc etc. I pointed out several facts which says you're wrong, or at the least, cherry picking: the ridgeline can't even tow a TT > 55 mph, it has far less GVWR, far less RAWR; half tons have air/more advanced suspension, seats sit higher in the cabin, much roomier interior for both driver and rear passengers, far more luxurious, massaging seats, higher tech and more of it (camera systems for towing) and on and on.



Watch the video again to see what actually happens.

The 48-11 does not disengage fully, even when steering is fully locked on dry pavement. It doesn't engage/disengage based on loss of traction, but it will disengage if it's "abused" in serious offroad enviroments like rock crawling and when the system gets too hot it will protect itself.

The 48-12 does not have an auto system, it's on/off (so only 4hi and 4low) and does not vary the pressure on the clutches. However it's a stronger system, since it uses chains and not clutches, it's better suited for heavy offroading.

The 48-11 is better suited for normal use, in my almost 6 years of ownership I've never had it disengage on me, whether I'm backing up my heavy RV up a campsite on wet grass, driving for hours in snow covered roads etc. It's been flawless.

There are other offroad features in a half ton that you can't find in the ridgeline, like locking rear diff (or limited slip), and a true low speed transfer case. Or even something as obvious as engine torque, a v8 has gobs of it low down and doesn't need to rev high; the 8 speed ZF transmission has an incredibly deep first gear ratio of 5.0:1, and an available 3.92 rear axle ratio (basically a stump puller).

Combined all that and there is no question that the 4x4 system in a typical half ton is in a different league vs a ridgeline. Sorry man, its just facts.

I watched both vids - Your dashboard has both Auto 4wd and 2wd correct?
If you want best mileage you have to switch out of Auto4WD to 2 WD correct?

I'm claiming I prefer towing with the ridgeline up to its max weight of 5K over any body on frame half ton.
I have a half ton body on frame truck with great aftermarket shocks.
Ive towed the same boats and trailers the same places with them both.

I'm claiming it rides and handles way better unloaded and in that mode is better highway truck than any half ton. Aero, NVH, mileage, handling, comfort.
Sure somebody can buy a package with super high end seats - but that doesn't change mileage, handing, NVH, or aero.

Im still claiming there are plenty of half tons that dont compete with the ridgline as a holistic package and I specifically mentioned the 2 WD v6 half ton trucks.

I didnt see anything in my 2017 manual about a TT and 55MPH. Nor read anything but its sounds like that may be new, maybe I missed that? Never had a problem.

I also claim IVTM-4 is equal or better on the street than just about anything you can get on half ton and is on par the 48-11 with no button pushing or mode selection needed - just drive and it works.

4-lo is a great feature for offroading. Ridge doenst have that.

We discussed these systems here and watched a group of vids and the very best Ive seen from Stallantis is the high end Hemi Durango which looked oh so slightly better than the Ridgeline - only by a wheel turn or two the two were very very close. I think you are underestimating IVTM 4.

Here's the two trucks in the driveway and the 30ft boat in the background.
There is a 4K lb 21ft boat in the garage, and Ive already shown the other boat I tow regularly.

 

[UncleDave]

The other rig weighs around 4K all in.
You can see it hooked up to both trucks.

I prefer the midsize truck for this pull as well.

 

[4WD]

The other rig weighs around 4K all in.
You can see it hooked up to both trucks.

I prefer the midsize truck for this pull as well.

View attachment 260299View attachment 260300

That hitch looks a bit high on the Honda

 

[4WD]

I watched both vids - Your dashboard has both Auto 4wd and 2wd correct?
If you want best mileage you have to switch out of Auto4WD to 2 WD correct?

I'm claiming I prefer towing with the ridgeline up to its max weight of 5K over any body on frame half ton.
I have a half ton body on frame truck with great aftermarket shocks.
Ive towed the same boats and trailers the same places with them both.

I'm claiming it rides and handles way better unloaded and in that mode is better highway truck than any half ton. Aero, NVH, mileage, handling, comfort.
Sure somebody can buy a package with super high end seats - but that doesn't change mileage, handing, NVH, or aero.

Im still claiming there are plenty of half tons that dont compete with the ridgline as a holistic package and I specifically mentioned the 2 WD v6 half ton trucks.

I didnt see anything in my 2017 manual about a TT and 55MPH. Nor read anything but its sounds like that may be new, maybe I missed that? Never had a problem.

I also claim IVTM-4 is equal or better on the street than just about anything you can get on half ton and is on par the 48-11 with no button pushing or mode selection needed - just drive and it works.

4-lo is a great feature for offroading. Ridge doenst have that.

We discussed these systems here and watched a group of vids and the very best Ive seen from Stallantis is the high end Hemi Durango which looked oh so slightly better than the Ridgeline - only by a wheel turn or two the two were very very close. I think you are underestimating IVTM 4.

Here's the two trucks in the driveway and the 30ft boat in the background.
There is a 4K lb 21ft boat in the garage, and Ive already shown the other boat I tow regularly.


View attachment 260296

Out of my three 4WD’s … only the newer does not have 4Lo. But with the 10 speed and rear locker - it does ok with the things we do … if not, Rubicon time!

 

[hemioiler]

I watched both vids - Your dashboard has both Auto 4wd and 2wd correct?
If you want best mileage you have to switch out of Auto4WD to 2 WD correct?

You keep it in 2wd until you need something stronger. If you happen to come across snowy roads you put it in auto and leave it there.

I'm claiming I prefer towing with the ridgeline up to its max weight of 5K over any body on frame half ton.
I have a half ton body on frame truck with great aftermarket shocks.
Ive towed the same boats and trailers the same places with them both.

I can't keep track of what half tons you own, you owned a 30 year old truck before and now show a picture of a Nissan (Titan?). If you own a Titan, it has never been competitive with the big 3. Ride or capability or luxury, it was always well behind the others.

I'm claiming it rides and handles way better unloaded and in that mode is better highway truck than any half ton. Aero, NVH, mileage, handling, comfort.
Sure somebody can buy a package with super high end seats - but that doesn't change mileage, handing, NVH, or aero.

You haven't driven a modern Ram, its obvious, as reviews consistently rank it at the top for low noise and comfort and ride quality. Taken as a complete package, comfort is better in the Ram, nobody cares about aero in a truck. If you're concerned about MPG, GM has you covered with a 3.0 duramax diesel.

Im still claiming there are plenty of half tons that dont compete with the ridgline as a holistic package and I specifically mentioned the 2 WD v6 half ton trucks.

Any 2wd v6 half ton will still out pull your ridgeline. Will the 2wd have issues on a slippery boat ramp? Possibly, especially with bad tires, but it will control the trailer better, stop the trailer better, carry the weight/passengers better etc.

I didnt see anything in my 2017 manual about a TT and 55MPH. Nor read anything but its sounds like that may be new, maybe I missed that? Never had a problem.

Page 418: Clearly their concerned about what you're towing with this thing

https://manuals.startmycar.com/published/Honda-Ridgeline_2017_EN-US_US_179da6e448.pdf

I also claim IVTM-4 is equal or better on the street than just about anything you can get on half ton and is on par the 48-11 with no button pushing or mode selection needed - just drive and it works.

Look at all the offroad features as a package; tow hooks, skid plates, 4x4 auto/hi/low, rear axle ratios, locking diffs, the ridgeline is not even close. If pushing a button once or twice a week is what you're basing your argument on, I mean really.

4-lo is a great feature for offroading. Ridge doenst have that.

We discussed these systems here and watched a group of vids and the very best Ive seen from Stallantis is the high end Hemi Durango which looked oh so slightly better than the Ridgeline - only by a wheel turn or two the two were very very close. I think you are underestimating IVTM 4.

The best from Stellantis is not the durango, it's in the TRX/RHO.

Here's the two trucks in the driveway and the 30ft boat in the background.
There is a 4K lb 21ft boat in the garage, and Ive already shown the other boat I tow regularly.

I'm not saying you haven't done it, I'm saying the half ton will always tow that load better.

 

[panthermike]

@dlundblad , any updates on where you're at?

 

[dlundblad]

@dlundblad , any updates on where you're at?

Honestly, getting cold feet all of the sudden. I don’t want to be spending the money right now.

 

[supton]

Honestly, getting cold feet all of the sudden. I don’t want to be spending the money right now.

Don't blame you, I've got kids headed to college and taking on more debt feels wrong at the moment, for a variety of reasons (and I don't want to spend all my cash either).

I forget, did you have something already to get around in? mid size or otherwise?

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I've been casually browsing midsize but can't make myself pull the trigger on one. Guess I'll wait and see what happens. Maybe in a few years.

 

[supton]

For some reason I've been hankering after a Frontier but i can't put my finger onto why. I think I miss having a truck... I liked my Tundra but boy was that a huge beast. A Fronty might not get any better mpg, and I'd give up towing capacity (the I didn't need/use), but at least I'd be able to clean snow off a much lower mid-sized. Plus that whole "I can reach over the bed rail" thing.

I think part of it is because it's like impossible to get a simple small station wagon anymore. My Jetta wagon was great; no interest in Subaru with all their problems over the years.

 

[CKN]

That hitch looks a bit high on the Honda

You can get away with that towing a boat. Having a trailer up that high causes issues-a boat? None at all.