Michelin CrossClimate2 Tires

[camrydriver111]

Tire marketers have a difficult job because all tires look identical.

Most people probably don't know there is any difference, let alone care where the tire was manufactured.

I sometimes see a brand new $60k SUV rocking Chinese tires so its not like the cheapest is all they can afford.

Thats why tire manufacturers let Tire Reviews use their facilities, to help educate and market their products.

It would be interesting to see a more competitive Chinese tire tested though.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

You can absolutely still get quality, but you have to pay for it, which is starting to make it somewhat niche in certain segments at this point with respect to the "Walmartization" or perhaps, per a more recent thread "Dollar Generalization" of things.

I fully appreciate that I'm farting against a hurricane of price-driven consumer behaviour that's predicated on consumption, but I make efforts to support Western manufacture of goods wherever possible. My new Michelin snows on the Jeep are made in Nova Scotia, Canada, for example. Tires are one area where we still have plenty of quality options from Western brands, with Western manufacture, but as evidenced by this thread, that doesn't mean the people that say they do, really give a crap about that if they can save a few bucks.

I think there are two layers: Traditional “Walmartization” vs. race-to-the-bottom “Alibabatization.”

Both sell Chinese manufactured products, but there is a layer of quality specing/checking performed by a middleman house brand or entity with the former.

What we’re seeing is the latter creeping into the “traditional” model. Essentially China-to-consumer with no real recognizable brand backing anything. It’s creating low prices at the expense of absolutely no accountability for products actually working.

Made in China is often low quality, but not always. Where quality is acceptable, though, it’s never in the direct model.

 

[OVERKILL]

If you can get 2 sets of Chinese tires that have ok performance and last 40k for the same price as one set of michelins that last 60k, you save $ per mile buying the cheap tires. Most people don't care about traction as long as they aren't horrible.

Yep, and that does an excellent job illustrating the problem, if the perception is you can get "good enough" for less, Joe Blow Patriot is going to turn a blind eye to COO, regardless of his pontifications with respect to "buy American/Canadian" or lamentations about the state of manufacturing in the West.

 

[OVERKILL]

Tire marketers have a difficult job because all tires look identical.

Most people probably don't know there is any difference, let alone care where the tire was manufactured.

I sometimes see a brand new $60k SUV rocking Chinese tires so its not like the cheapest is all they can afford.

Remember, a good sized segment of the population can't really "afford" that $60K SUV either. If they go to Les Schwab and a set of Michelin's are $1,200 and a set of "I can't believe it's not Rubber" from China are $700 and, as you point out, they look similar, they don't care if the Michelin walks all over it in every possible metric as long as it's "good enough", and the reality is, they are unlikely to know that it walks all over them because the tire dude is like "these are a great bang for buck" because he's making a killer margin on them.

Thats why tire manufacturers let Tire Reviews use their facilities, to help educate and market their products.

It would be interesting to see a more competitive Chinese tire tested though.

Yes, but how many people really read the reviews that aren't enthusiasts? I suspect it's a small market. Having observed many tire sales at the dealer, the conversation is all about price from the perspective of the consumer, and the person at the counter isn't bringing up TireRack testing to show the differences and not sure the consumer would often listen even if they did. "Well, these Continental's are fantastic, but they'll run you about $1,500" customer: "OK, what's the cheapest tire you've got that's decent?"

 

[Ws6]

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/Best-All-Season-Tyres-2024.htm

CC2 finally bested by new competitors from Continental, Bridgestone and Pirelli

Also keep in mind this guy tests Euro spec tires. Crossclimate 2 in EU is a different compound than in North America. It is demonstrably different.

Leading on from the grand success of the first generation CrossClimate and the second generation’s success in the north American market, the CrossClimate 2 is now heading to stores in Europe. However, compared to the American product, the European product will be slightly different. Using slightly different materials, this variation will have a 10% lower rolling resistance when compared to the predecessor and uses an advanced Cool Running Sidewall technology to help increase fuel efficiency or electric vehicle battery range.

https://www.hometyre.co.uk/mobile-t...og/michelin-crossclimate-2-release-in-europe/
This may be why wet traction in my CC2's meets/exceeds my PSAS4's. I am using North American compound.

 

[Ws6]

The Chinese are starting to build some pretty good tires. Lots of people are happy with their venom power xt tires and they are cheaper than the other rugged at tires so they sell good.

Budget tires are a terrible idea.

 

[Ws6]

If you can get 2 sets of Chinese tires that have ok performance and last 40k for the same price as one set of michelins that last 60k, you save $ per mile buying the cheap tires. Most people don't care about traction as long as they aren't horrible.

They don't even have "OK" performance when new. Junk.

 

[Vercingetorix]

If wet weather performance is what you’re after the CrossClimate 2 are not the best choice according to Tire Rack testing.

 

[dumkid]

They don't even have "OK" performance when new. Junk.

Good enough for Arizona. No wet or snow traction needed

 

[Ws6]

Good enough for Arizona. No wet or snow traction needed

I guess if you never drive around your state that's true.

 

[Ws6]

If wet weather performance is what you’re after the CrossClimate 2 are not the best choice according to Tire Rack testing.
View attachment 208343

I don't have a lateral G meter, but my wet acceleration and stopping times and g's were superior with my CC2's vs my PSAS4's. In wet 60-0, they bested them by nearly 30 feet. Same piece of road. Same temps.

 

[edyvw]

I don't have a lateral G meter, but my wet acceleration and stopping times and g's were superior with my CC2's vs my PSAS4's. In wet 60-0, they bested them by nearly 30 feet. Same piece of road. Same temps.

Nearly 30ft? You really need to curb your enthusiasm when you buy something:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=270

 

[Ws6]

Nearly 30ft? You really need to curb your enthusiasm when you buy something:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=270

Its real cool what you read online. Here's real world testing in my own vehicle. To be fair, the PSAS4s were at about 7/32, and the CC2s at 9-10, but the new Hankook Ion As SUV at 10/32 was even worse than these PSAS4s, so I dont think tread depth was the issue.

Wet road testing:
PSAS4

CC2

Hankook Ion AS SUV 10/32

 

[Ws6]

Nearly 30ft? You really need to curb your enthusiasm when you buy something:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=270

Also, you linked me to the snow and ice acceleration...their 60ft time in that BMW was 4.88 seconds at best. My car did nearly a full second better than that. Differences in vehicle matter.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Not exactly scientific. Were these even done on the same road? Certainly at different times, probably different days, certainly different altitudes. Temperatures all over the place. These results are lacking.

 

[edyvw]

Its real cool what you read online. Here's real world testing in my own vehicle. To be fair, the PSAS4s were at about 7/32, and the CC2s at 9-10, but the new Hankook Ion As SUV at 10/32 was even worse than these PSAS4s, so I dont think tread depth was the issue.

Wet road testing:
PSAS4
View attachment 208542
CC2
View attachment 208543
Hankook Ion AS SUV 10/32
View attachment 208544

That is not how a controlled experiment works! There could be hundreds of variables. My 7 year old knows that.

 

[Ws6]

That is not how a controlled experiment works! There could be hundreds of variables. My 7 year old knows that.

I guess I should pick the tire that stops worse on my car on roads I drive because your internet says so. Rofl. Ok.

 

[edyvw]

I guess I should pick the tire that stops worse on my car on roads I drive because your internet says so. Rofl. Ok.

I trust more "my internet" than some Korean appliance manufacturer.

 

[Ws6]

Not exactly scientific. Were these even done on the same road? Certainly at different times, probably different days, certainly different altitudes. Temperatures all over the place. These results are lacking.

View attachment 208552

View attachment 208554

View attachment 208555

Yup different days. Same road. If you've done braking tests with Dragy, you know the slope can be like that. Subjectively, having driven them, they feel like the CC2s hook and stop better. The Hankooks were abysmal. The psas4 was good, just not quite as good as CC2.

 

[Ws6]

I trust more "my internet" than some Korean appliance manufacturer.

Cool story. When are you going to even buy a performance vehicle?