"Meets and Exceeds". Let's look at QS for a minute.

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Both owner manuals of my vehicles, 2016 GDI and 2021 GDI turbo, simply say use an oil that has the API "Starburst" symbol. Wonder if we over think this whole issue...just a bit?
 

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Both owner manuals of my vehicles, 2016 GDI and 2021 GDI turbo, simply say use an oil that has the API "Starburst" symbol. Wonder if we over think this whole issue...just a bit?
There are many other vehicles out there where owner manuals call for very specific engine manufacturer specs and approvals and not just generic API ones.
 

OVERKILL

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Meets or exceeds ??🤔🤔🤔

I’ll go with exceeds everyday of the week
Why do you think Redline is still around making a profit since 1979.
They offer a **** GOOD PRODUCT !!!!!
Or they’d be out of business by now !🤨

Ummm, they were swallowed up by Conoco Philips who wanted to capitalize on the brand equity for more "average" products, unlike AMSOIL that still exists as a wholly independent blender.
 

OVERKILL

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Meets or Exceeds seems to be the correct language for blenders/manufactures to use on products they can self-certify for, like the API ones. Basically, they can run the in-house test and claim that they meet or exceed the requirements, there is no formal approval issued by an independent body in this case.

The Dexos license is a bit weird, because it's a license, and clearly they've got one, as the number is listed, but it's included under the same heading. Perhaps they are self-certifying for this as well?

On actual manufacturer approvals where the testing is performed by the OEM and then certified, the heading will be different.

An example from XOM:

Screen Shot 2021-03-19 at 12.03.48 PM.jpg
 
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There are many other vehicles out there where owner manuals call for very specific engine manufacturer specs and approvals and not just generic API ones.
Exactly, and that’s what I quite don’t understand.
Why for a given engine technology, say a GDI turbo, are there no specifics specifications to very specific specifications? What is so different in these motors between manufacturers?
 
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Meets or Exceeds seems to be the correct language for blenders/manufactures to use on products they can self-certify for, like the API ones. Basically, they can run the in-house test and claim that they meet or exceed the requirements, there is no formal approval issued by an independent body in this case.

The Dexos license is a bit weird, because it's a license, and clearly they've got one, as the number is listed, but it's included under the same heading. Perhaps they are self-certifying for this as well?

On actual manufacturer approvals where the testing is performed by the OEM and then certified, the heading will be different.

An example from XOM:

View attachment 50072
And ESP X2 0W-20 is a bit less clear, IMO.

This product meets or exceeds the requirements of:
API SL
API SN Engine Test Requirements
API SN PLUS ENGINE TEST REQUIREMENTS
API SP ENGINE TEST REQUIREMENTS
ACEA C5

I have been in disagreements on other forums where people insisted that Amsoil SSO and Red Line (the original Street/Racing version) were API certified. They usually get it when I ask them to show me the donut on the bottle.

But I don't blame them because this whole "meets or exceeds" or "recommended for" is all very confusing to a lot of people.
 
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Although ESP X2 0W-20 is a bit less clear, IMO.

This product meets or exceeds the requirements of:
API SL
API SN Engine Test Requirements
API SN PLUS ENGINE TEST REQUIREMENTS
API SP ENGINE TEST REQUIREMENTS
ACEA C5

I have been in disagreements on other forums where people insisted that Amsoil SSO and Red Line (the original Street/Racing version) were API certified. They usually get it when I ask them to show me the donut on the bottle.

But I don't blame them because this whole "meets or exceeds" or "recommended for" is all very confusing to a lot of people.
Those are also correct, if you look into the API documents for licensing there is additional information.
 

OVERKILL

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And ESP X2 0W-20 is a bit less clear, IMO.

This product meets or exceeds the requirements of:
API SL
API SN Engine Test Requirements
API SN PLUS ENGINE TEST REQUIREMENTS
API SP ENGINE TEST REQUIREMENTS
ACEA C5

I have been in disagreements on other forums where people insisted that Amsoil SSO and Red Line (the original Street/Racing version) were API certified. They usually get it when I ask them to show me the donut on the bottle.

But I don't blame them because this whole "meets or exceeds" or "recommended for" is all very confusing to a lot of people.

"Recommended for" is quite different from "meets or exceeds" though.

AMSOIL now uses the following language:

Non-approved oil (SS):
Screen Shot 2021-03-19 at 12.35.40 PM.jpg


API Approved:
Screen Shot 2021-03-19 at 12.39.05 PM.jpg


Euro OEM Approved:
Screen Shot 2021-03-19 at 12.36.31 PM.jpg


Confused yet? LOL! Yes, they use the same language. The tell is the starburst on the bottle for the XL oils.

CP/Redline is much more clear, using "Recommended for" with no allusion to approval:
Screen Shot 2021-03-19 at 12.41.59 PM.jpg
 
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RLI's language is also clear

While no formal engine oil license performance is implied or guaranteed in this formulation, (unlicensed formula) the key physical properties have been met as defined by SAE J300, and the formula passed the tests required for API and ILSAC base oil interchange.
 
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Exactly, and that’s what I quite don’t understand.
Why for a given engine technology, say a GDI turbo, are there no specifics specifications to very specific specifications? What is so different in these motors between manufacturers?
I don't claim to be an engine designer, but is it possible that not all GDI turbo engines are the same? They run under different pressure, with different lubrication systems/hardware, and call for different oil change intervals. Wouldn't these differences warrant different oils meeting different specs?
 
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The latest and greatest verbiage does not claim to meet or exceed anything. They just claim it’s suitable and recommended for. And their products seem to do what they claim they do.

Redline that is.
 
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Remember everyone, the oil is formulated by engineers; the language on the bottle is written by lawyers. In my opinion, what's in the bottle is more important than what's on the bottle. This isn't bobisthelawyerguy.com... 😁
 
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Meets or Exceeds seems to be the correct language for blenders/manufactures to use on products they can self-certify for, like the API ones. Basically, they can run the in-house test and claim that they meet or exceed the requirements, there is no formal approval issued by an independent body in this case.

The Dexos license is a bit weird, because it's a license, and clearly they've got one, as the number is listed, but it's included under the same heading. Perhaps they are self-certifying for this as well?

On actual manufacturer approvals where the testing is performed by the OEM and then certified, the heading will be different.

An example from XOM:

View attachment 50072
Yes, even Exxon uses “Meets or Exceeds”. The most important thing is the API donut with SP. All the rest is good old Bitog hang wringing. Flame suit on. ;)
 
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There’s some confusing language (errors) on that QS list-the D1 G2 has a LICENSE NUMBER on it, which means APPROVED & LICENSED, and the API starburst logo also means APPROVED & LICENSED for API SP! SOPUS is not doing themselves any favors with their labeling here, this one is a “tempest in a teapot” for sure!
 
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And many boutique oils, such as Red Line & Amsoil, don’t want to pay GM for the Dexos approval, so they DO NOT have a license number, nor are they on the gmdexos.com list-doesn’t mean they’re not perfectly good, or even great products-but they do say the dreaded “meets and/or exceeds”!
 
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My favore Togo brand . Easy to find all flavor . Peoples here tend to pick super tech over qs . So I have no problem getting it when I need
 
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In my opinion, "Meets or Exceeds" is a definitive statement from the manufacturer/marketer that the oil formulation has been tested against and passed all of the requirements of the stated specification/standard. If the formulation was not actually tested against and passed all of the requirements, then the manufacturer/marketer is being deceptive and can be held liable. The "Exceeds" part is just marketing - with dozens of tests required to meet a specification, surely at least one test result exceeded the minimum specification.

Statements such as "Formulated to meet...", "Recommended for...", "Suitable for...". and similar verbiage are an opinion from the manufacturer/marketer that they believe the formulation would pass the required tests if so tested, or is at least suitable for the application. The fact that they chose not to state "Meets or Exceeds" strongly implies that they do not have the full actual data to support this statement. Their opinion may be based on partial testing, similar products that have been tested, or an expert assessment of the expected performance based on the formulation. The opinion also could be baseless. The value of these statements depends on your faith in the integrity of the manufacturer/marketer.
 
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