Maxlife transmission fluid Relabel?

There's a new PI sheet dated 6/5/23 on their website, not sure what's changed.
 
Trav said:
This would not be the first time, may be when the spec fluid thins out enough at some point the Maxlife will meet the spec. LOL
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I know that -40C viscosity spec has changed since 2022:

Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C, cP
9,000 [2022-10-25]
11,000 [2023-06-05]
 
I'm surprised. Now three pages to this thread, and still no "The Feds have banned it"; why have they taken 'Our freedom?' etc

Have you forgotten where you are?... this is BITOG? At least misquote or take some fact out of context. This thread is far too close to rational.

I heard... 'Maxlife makes you blind', where's my pitchfork?
 
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weaponoffreedom said:
i would say more like honda owners have a bad history of maintenance intervals
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That's a rather bold assertion. Any proof of that? I ask because we have plenty of proof of Honda shortening service intervals to replace the already used up fluid.
 
JustN89 said:
That's a rather bold assumption. Any proof of that? I ask because we have plenty of proof of Honda shortening service intervals to replace the already used up fluid.
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Just because Honda shortens intervals in their books doesnt mean people do it. It also does not mean that the increase in stated fluid change intervals was ever correct.

In the early 2000's, all upon a sudden, every vehicle manufacture started campaigning on "total cost of ownership". Like clockwork, at the same time, magically, service intervals on things like ATF fluid and filter changes, and gear oil changes and the like were every "`102,500k miles". Reading in between the lines, this meant that the "total cost of ownership", over a 5 year 100k warranty period went down, thus drawing buyers. They also knew that most people then were not keep their vehicles much longer than 100k, and would not service their stuff due to the manual not saying you had to.

Jump forward to today, and many of those "you never have to change the fluid" intervals, have tightened up a bit, especially in the "severe service" catagory, which is basically everyone. And so to has decreased the warranty period, see a correlation.?????

The proof is in the facts I just stated. There is no scientific "study" to quote so dont go there. Just objective knowledge and watching the trends of the BS that is fed to us constantly by the world. And owning 50+ cars over the last 20 years, including Honda.

You also have to look at the intended buyers of the cars, and their "qualities". I know that is going to sound messed up, but it is the truth. In general, there is a kind of buyer who buys the Nissan Sentra, and they dont change their oil, or ever buy new tires. Again, in general, not everyone.
 
weaponoffreedom said:
Just because Honda shortens intervals in their books doesnt mean people do it. It also does not mean that the increase in stated fluid change intervals was ever correct.

In the early 2000's, all upon a sudden, every vehicle manufacture started campaigning on "total cost of ownership". Like clockwork, at the same time, magically, service intervals on things like ATF fluid and filter changes, and gear oil changes and the like were every "`102,500k miles". Reading in between the lines, this meant that the "total cost of ownership", over a 5 year 100k warranty period went down, thus drawing buyers. They also knew that most people then were not keep their vehicles much longer than 100k, and would not service their stuff due to the manual not saying you had to.

Jump forward to today, and many of those "you never have to change the fluid" intervals, have tightened up a bit, especially in the "severe service" catagory, which is basically everyone. And so to has decreased the warranty period, see a correlation.?????

The proof is in the facts I just stated. There is no scientific "study" to quote so dont go there. Just objective knowledge and watching the trends of the BS that is fed to us constantly by the world. And owning 50+ cars over the last 20 years, including Honda.

You also have to look at the intended buyers of the cars, and their "qualities". I know that is going to sound messed up, but it is the truth. In general, there is a kind of buyer who buys the Nissan Sentra, and they dont change their oil, or ever buy new tires. Again, in general, not everyone.
Click to expand...
There's a lot to unpack here, so I'll try to break it down as best as I can.

"Just because Honda shortens intervals in their books doesnt mean people do it. It also does not mean that the increase in stated fluid change intervals was ever correct."
Okay, but that neither proves nor disproves your assertion that the fluid is failing because people are running it longer than specified. In fact, it doesn't answer that point at all. Let's just assume, because it really doesn't matter if it's true or not, that every Honda owner changed their ATF at the specified interval. Honda still shortened it due to the early degradation of the fluid causing juddering. How do you perform the mental gymnastics to turn that into the fault of the owners?

"In the early 2000's, all upon a sudden, every vehicle manufacture started campaigning on "total cost of ownership". Like clockwork, at the same time, magically, service intervals on things like ATF fluid and filter changes, and gear oil changes and the like were every "`102,500k miles". Reading in between the lines, this meant that the "total cost of ownership", over a 5 year 100k warranty period went down, thus drawing buyers. They also knew that most people then were not keep their vehicles much longer than 100k, and would not service their stuff due to the manual not saying you had to."
This has nothing to do with your claim that Honda owners exceed the service intervals of the fluid and that's what's causing their problems. If anything, it only proves my point - Honda ATF is nothing special and in fact, can leave a lot to be desired. In this case, the desire here is the recommended service interval by Honda.

"Jump forward to today, and many of those "you never have to change the fluid" intervals, have tightened up a bit, especially in the "severe service" catagory, which is basically everyone. And so to has decreased the warranty period, see a correlation.?????"
I see the correlation you're wanting to make, but that has nothing to do with the assertion that you made earlier. Again, you said that "Honda owners have a bad history of maintenance intervals". This doesn't prove that. All it proves is that the fluid that Honda DW-1 will not meet the extended service intervals that Honda calls out in their maintenance schedule. That was my point all along, that not only does it not meet the schedule that Honda recommends, but that it comes drastically short of it.

"The proof is in the facts I just stated. There is no scientific "study" to quote so dont go there. Just objective knowledge and watching the trends of the BS that is fed to us constantly by the world. And owning 50+ cars over the last 20 years, including Honda."
I'm not supposed to ask you for specific, factual evidence to support your claim? Okay..... That said, you haven't really stated any facts, other than that service intervals have extended over the years. I also fail to understand your claim that Honda owners are bad at maintenance. The only point that you're making is that the fluid isn't meeting the extended drain intervals that Honda is specifying, and then blaming the vehicle owners for following those directions. Seems like your point is that Honda and DW-1 are failing the owners, which was my point all along.

"You also have to look at the intended buyers of the cars, and their "qualities". I know that is going to sound messed up, but it is the truth. In general, there is a kind of buyer who buys the Nissan Sentra, and they dont change their oil, or ever buy new tires. Again, in general, not everyone."
Let's just say that your stereotyping is correct. Since when have Honda owners gotten a bad rep for maintenance? I've heard the stereotype about Nissan owners, as well as Hyun/Kia owners, but this is the first time I've heard the claim that Honda owners are bad at maintenance.

Your whole argument seems to be that Honda owners follow the extreme lubricant change intervals that Honda recommends and that's the reason why we see so many transmission issues with Honda. Whether that's right or wrong, I have no idea how that supports your initial claim that "Honda owners are bad at maintenance intervals". Assuming your argument is correct, that's not Honda owners being bad at maintenance, but rather listening to bad advice from an OEM that does not have the specified fluid to meet the interval. This is why I said that DW-1 leaves a lot to be desired.
 
JustN89 said:
that's not Honda owners being bad at maintenance, but rather listening to bad advice from an OEM that does not have the specified fluid to meet the interval. This is why I said that DW-1 leaves a lot to be desired.
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We are on the same page.

Agreed that it is not the owners fault.

My point is that "they" auto manufacturers extended these service intervals to make sales. Tranny life be ****ed. Many others did too. This is why I think that there was a bunch of tranny failures in Hondas past say 2004. Many incompatable steps lead to failure.

In general, as I stated in my post, NOT ALL, Honda owners are bad maintenance doers, but I would say that majority are, hell i would say the vast majority of all owners today are bad in maintaining anything.

To ask for scientific "proof" or cases studies done on every little thing is ridiculous. Seems to be par for the course on here. I dont have to read and interpret a case study to call BS on it.

The issue with fluid and extended drain intervals were not exclusive to Honda, GM did this also, pre Dexron 6.

In short, do you agree with my original assessment?
 
weaponoffreedom said:
We are on the same page.

Agreed that it is not the owners fault.

My point is that "they" auto manufacturers extended these service intervals to make sales. Tranny life be ****ed. Many others did too. This is why I think that there was a bunch of tranny failures in Hondas past say 2004. Many incompatable steps lead to failure.

In general, as I stated in my post, NOT ALL, Honda owners are bad maintenance doers, but I would say that majority are, hell i would say the vast majority of all owners today are bad in maintaining anything.

To ask for scientific "proof" or cases studies done on every little thing is ridiculous. Seems to be par for the course on here. I dont have to read and interpret a case study to call BS on it.

The issue with fluid and extended drain intervals were not exclusive to Honda, GM did this also, pre Dexron 6.

In short, do you agree with my original assessment?
Click to expand...
No, I don't agree with your original assessment. You said:
"i would say more like honda owners have a bad history of maintenance intervals".

This was followed by:
"You also have to look at the intended buyers of the cars, and their "qualities". I know that is going to sound messed up, but it is the truth. In general, there is a kind of buyer who buys the Nissan Sentra, and they dont change their oil, or ever buy new tires. Again, in general, not everyone.".

I do not agree with the above.

However, your point now seems to be that OEMs are extending their drain intervals beyond what is sensible for equipment health and longevity. Now that I agree with, which is why I said, "It's not like Honda ATF has a history of excellent performance". DW-1 has not only failed to live up to the service intervals that Honda has set, but Honda has even had to shorten the interval in order to protect the fluid and the transmissions themselves.
 
JustN89 said:
No, I don't agree with your original assessment. You said:
"i would say more like honda owners have a bad history of maintenance intervals".

This was followed by:
"You also have to look at the intended buyers of the cars, and their "qualities". I know that is going to sound messed up, but it is the truth. In general, there is a kind of buyer who buys the Nissan Sentra, and they dont change their oil, or ever buy new tires. Again, in general, not everyone.".

I do not agree with the above.

However, your point now seems to be that OEMs are extending their drain intervals beyond what is sensible for equipment health and longevity. Now that I agree with, which is why I said, "It's not like Honda ATF has a history of excellent performance". DW-1 has not only failed to live up to the service intervals that Honda has set, but Honda has even had to shorten the interval in order to protect the fluid and the transmissions themselves.
Click to expand...
glad to see you can admit and agreeing with one point, good on you, good luck to the Pack without Rodgers.
 
Hey guys, I work at NAPA and we've had this stuff off the shelf for a few months now. We just got our changeover packet and I wanted to share some info.

Looks like it's losing all of its import specifications.

773775 is getting the same treatment.

1000027231.jpg
 
xpineapple said:
Hey guys, I work at NAPA and we've had this stuff off the shelf for a few months now. We just got our changeover packet and I wanted to share some info.

Looks like it's losing all of its import specifications.

773775 is getting the same treatment.

View attachment 166940
Click to expand...
Well for one thing, to be accurate it never really had any "import specifications". It always had (and still has) only recommendations.

Having said that, if you go to the website and look at the PDS it still has a plethora of recommendations including for imports. I suspect nothing has actually changed with the fluid itself.
 
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