Marvel mystery oil and similar fuel additives and octane?

K

Kql

Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
38
I often hear people say anything with oil in it, which would include marvel mystery oil , gumout fuel system cleaner, lucas ect...lowers the fuel's octane, but I thought lower octane fuel is easier to ignite, not harder, would anything added to fuel (such as pale, light oil in some fuel additives not marketed as octane booster) . In theory wouldn't any oils in the fuel raise the octane, or am I getting this backwards?
Here's what I've noticed...low speed ping on my Rav4 is immediately and almost completely eliminated when I dump 16oz (full bottle) of 104+ injector pro in a full tank of fuel (16 gallons). I'm not exaggerating, with about 2 gallons left I'll pull up to the pump, dump the 16oz 104 injector pro in, fill the tank, start it, pull out and zero ignition ping.. I've done this 4 times over the last 6 months.. It lasts the entire tank. If I don't treat the next tank, the ping comes back.
 
What year & engine RAV4? Sounds like your ignition timing is off.
Is your RAV4 an older one with the V6? Could be the knock sensors!
 
Char Baby said:
What year & engine RAV4? Sounds like your ignition timing is off.
Is your RAV4 an older one with the V6? Could be the knock sensors!
Click to expand...
I agree - something is wrong. No modern car should have noticable ping. Octane boosters only raise the octane of gasoline by 1 point and that is NOT meaning you go from 87 to 88 octane....you go from 87 to 87.1. That is all you get.
 
The gas (and additive) that you just put in the tank will take a minute to reach the injectors. Under normal circumstances, you won't notice a difference as you pull away from the pump unless you run the engine a long time before leaving. I suspect the engine cooled slightly while you were pumping gas, this reduced engine temperature is which is why the engine did not ping as you drove away. But then, what do I know.
Modern cars will ping briefly in certain situations but it should be very mild and go away immediately. This is normal operation as the computer searches for optimal efficiency by adjusting the fuel and timing curves according to the circumstances.
 
Kql said:
I often hear people say anything with oil in it, which would include marvel mystery oil , gumout fuel system cleaner, lucas ect...lowers the fuel's octane, but I thought lower octane fuel is easier to ignite, not harder, would anything added to fuel (such as pale, light oil in some fuel additives not marketed as octane booster) . In theory wouldn't any oils in the fuel raise the octane, or am I getting this backwards?
Here's what I've noticed...low speed ping on my Rav4 is immediately and almost completely eliminated when I dump 16oz (full bottle) of 104+ injector pro in a full tank of fuel (16 gallons). I'm not exaggerating, with about 2 gallons left I'll pull up to the pump, dump the 16oz 104 injector pro in, fill the tank, start it, pull out and zero ignition ping.. I've done this 4 times over the last 6 months.. It lasts the entire tank. If I don't treat the next tank, the ping comes back.
Click to expand...
No, adding oil to the fuel will lower the octane rating. And "ease in ignition" as it relates to normal spark ignition has nothing to do with the octane rating. Higher octane fuel resists self-ignition better (knock) but that's not the same. If your vehicle is pinging on the proper fuel then as has already been mentioned there is something wrong with the engine.

If you learn what influences the octane rating you'll see why an oil lowers it.
 
GMBoy said:
I agree - something is wrong. No modern car should have noticable ping. Octane boosters only raise the octane of gasoline by 1 point and that is NOT meaning you go from 87 to 88 octane....you go from 87 to 87.1. That is all you get.
Click to expand...
“Should” ? plenty of modern cars have a light ping in some conditions.
 
kschachn said:
No, adding oil to the fuel will lower the octane rating. And "ease in ignition" as it relates to normal spark ignition has nothing to do with the octane rating. Higher octane fuel resists self-ignition better (knock) but that's not the same. If your vehicle is pinging on the proper fuel then as has already been mentioned there is something wrong with the engine.

If you learn what influences the octane rating you'll see why an oil lowers it.
Click to expand...
Maybe this is oranges to apples, but... I heard some F1 teams designed their engines to burn a bit of oil in order to *increase* performance. The FIA viewed this as cheating and banned the practice. Looks like I am also confused about the relationship between fuel octane and burning oil.
 
DGXR said:
Maybe this is oranges to apples, but... I heard some F1 teams designed their engines to burn a bit of oil in order to *increase* performance. The FIA viewed this as cheating and banned the practice. Looks like I am also confused about the relationship between fuel octane and burning oil.
Click to expand...
Yes you still get energy from combusting oil and you're not using fuel. But that isn't as if the oil has anything directly to do with the octane rating in this instance. They are just using it as an additional and unregulated source of energy.
 
DGXR said:
Maybe this is oranges to apples, but... I heard some F1 teams designed their engines to burn a bit of oil in order to *increase* performance. The FIA viewed this as cheating and banned the practice. Looks like I am also confused about the relationship between fuel octane and burning oil.
Click to expand...
I think that was to get around fuel capacity limits, not increase performance per se.
 
kschachn said:
Yes you still get energy from combusting oil and you're not using fuel. But that isn't as if the oil has anything directly to do with the octane rating in this instance. They are just using it as an additional and unregulated source of energy.
Click to expand...
"unregulated"?
Oil added to the fuel would still be metered by the fuel injection system and, asuming it burns, its contribution to combustion would be measured by the O2 sensor.
 
Kql said:
I often hear people say anything with oil in it, which would include marvel mystery oil , gumout fuel system cleaner, lucas ect...lowers the fuel's octane, but I thought lower octane fuel is easier to ignite, not harder, would anything added to fuel (such as pale, light oil in some fuel additives not marketed as octane booster) . In theory wouldn't any oils in the fuel raise the octane, or am I getting this backwards?
Here's what I've noticed...low speed ping on my Rav4 is immediately and almost completely eliminated when I dump 16oz (full bottle) of 104+ injector pro in a full tank of fuel (16 gallons). I'm not exaggerating, with about 2 gallons left I'll pull up to the pump, dump the 16oz 104 injector pro in, fill the tank, start it, pull out and zero ignition ping.. I've done this 4 times over the last 6 months.. It lasts the entire tank. If I don't treat the next tank, the ping comes back.
Click to expand...
Lower octane fuel is more oily, such as Diesel fuel or JP5 (which is used on Navy fork lifts and machinery). Higher octane fuels are less oily and more evaporative and thinner in consistency, such as Aviation gasoline. 87 gasoline vs 91 results from such a refinement, and is not the result of an octane booster added to the refined fuel.
The octane rating of a fuel is basically its resistance to spontaneous combustion (from being compressed). Temperature is a factor, this is why Diesel engines need a glow plug for cold weather starting. And is why pinging happens much more in a hot engine in hot weather.
 
Will4 said:
Lower octane fuel is more oily, such as Diesel fuel or JP5 (which is used on Navy fork lifts and machinery). Higher octane fuels are less oily and more evaporative and thinner in consistency, such as Aviation gasoline. 87 gasoline vs 91 results from such a refinement, and is not the result of an octane booster added to the refined fuel.
The octane rating of a fuel is basically its resistance to spontaneous combustion (from being compressed). Temperature is a factor, this is why Diesel engines need a glow plug for cold weather starting. And is why pinging happens much more in a hot engine in hot weather.
Click to expand...
No, lower octane fuel is not more “oily”. We can add that one to the long list of misconceptions about octane rating.
 
Kql said:
I often hear people say anything with oil in it, which would include marvel mystery oil , gumout fuel system cleaner, lucas ect...lowers the fuel's octane, but I thought lower octane fuel is easier to ignite, not harder, would anything added to fuel (such as pale, light oil in some fuel additives not marketed as octane booster) . In theory wouldn't any oils in the fuel raise the octane, or am I getting this backwards?
Here's what I've noticed...low speed ping on my Rav4 is immediately and almost completely eliminated when I dump 16oz (full bottle) of 104+ injector pro in a full tank of fuel (16 gallons). I'm not exaggerating, with about 2 gallons left I'll pull up to the pump, dump the 16oz 104 injector pro in, fill the tank, start it, pull out and zero ignition ping.. I've done this 4 times over the last 6 months.. It lasts the entire tank. If I don't treat the next tank, the ping comes back.
Click to expand...
Slight problem with your experience........
If you feel a difference right after you fill up and drive away....this is DEFINITELY placebo......not real.
The gas lines in your Rav are still filled with your non treated fuel.......its the same fuel you were getting pings on.
Makes zero sense. There could not be any difference until the engine has used the fuel in those lines....10 to 20 miles of driving.
Ping on a rav is also very rare. Unless you have been using the cheapest low quality fuel you could find.
 
Marvel Mystery Oil is 70% pale oil with small amounts of isoproypl alcohol, light naphtha, and chlorinated paraffins. I don't know the octane of pale oil. Isopropanol is ~105 (R+M/2) and light naphtha is way down in the 60s. I don't know an octane rating for CP but even if it was 0, there's not enough of it in there to matter, and you don't really want that in your engine or fuel system anyway.

Used in the amount recommended by MMO, I wouldn't expect any noticeable difference in octane rating. That said, I wouldn't put it in my fuel anyway. It lacks sufficient solvency to clean anything. The 10% ethanol that's already in your fuel is a better solvent than the isopropanol and naphtha at cleaning both polar and non-polar compounds.
 
Kql said:
I often hear people say anything with oil in it, which would include marvel mystery oil , gumout fuel system cleaner, lucas ect...lowers the fuel's octane, but I thought lower octane fuel is easier to ignite, not harder, would anything added to fuel (such as pale, light oil in some fuel additives not marketed as octane booster) . In theory wouldn't any oils in the fuel raise the octane, or am I getting this backwards?
Here's what I've noticed...low speed ping on my Rav4 is immediately and almost completely eliminated when I dump 16oz (full bottle) of 104+ injector pro in a full tank of fuel (16 gallons). I'm not exaggerating, with about 2 gallons left I'll pull up to the pump, dump the 16oz 104 injector pro in, fill the tank, start it, pull out and zero ignition ping.. I've done this 4 times over the last 6 months.. It lasts the entire tank. If I don't treat the next tank, the ping comes back.
Click to expand...
I think the Fuel Injector Pro contain some combustion enhancer that reduce the ping but not much on combustion chamber cleaning. However if using it helps, I would recommend to use 3 step fuel system kit or full dose Redline SI-1 in the tank and spray CRC GDI Intake Cleaner to have better result that will not require you to add additive like 104+ pro every fill-up. The only caveat is if your valve oil seal or piston ring allow excessive oil to be burnt.
 
Will4 said:
Lower octane fuel is more oily, such as Diesel fuel or JP5 (which is used on Navy fork lifts and machinery). Higher octane fuels are less oily and more evaporative and thinner in consistency, such as Aviation gasoline. 87 gasoline vs 91 results from such a refinement, and is not the result of an octane booster added to the refined fuel.
The octane rating of a fuel is basically its resistance to spontaneous combustion (from being compressed). Temperature is a factor, this is why Diesel engines need a glow plug for cold weather starting. And is why pinging happens much more in a hot engine in hot weather.
Click to expand...
As a head lab tech for chevron who spent 5 years doing nothing but octane testing this is completely false as far as being oily. Gasoline with higher octane ratings comes from different components in the refining process. Typically gasoline that has more alkylates and reformate are higher octane.
 
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