Reclaiming fuel contaminated oil

[SHOZ]

DI has a lot higher fuel pressure.

 

[oil pan 4]

Where's the CCS for the 10W-30 at -30C coming from? CCS for a 10W-xx is measured at -25C.

A few posts back. Turns out that PP 10w-30 is more like a typical 5w-30. Both PP 10w-30 and PP 5w-30 are showing around 5,000 cP at -25c. It's almost like they put 5w-30 in both bottles.

 

[oil pan 4]

DI allows for more precise control over fueling, but has less degrees of crank rotation for atomization. I can't say the percentage it runs on DI vs Port, since that all depends on the mapping and driver behavior.

It was probably just speculation by engine nerds. It would seem to keep all the DI advantages of low NOx and improved fuel economy with the power of port injection and have clean intake valves. The engine would do most of driving and ideling on DI.

 

[CarlB]

It was probably just speculation by engine nerds. It would seem to keep all the DI advantages of low NOx and improved fuel economy with the power of port injection and have clean intake valves. The engine would do most of driving and ideling on DI.

Low engine speed is actually the most difficult to get proper atomization on DI.

 

[oil pan 4]

Low engine speed is actually the most difficult to get proper atomization on DI.

Isn't there a low speed pre-ignition issue too with DI engines too?
All good reasons to also include port injection.

 

[mr_boring]

It's absolutely being forced by unelected bureaucrats in the EPA. The EPA is always squeezing OEMs for more fuel economy and less NOx.
I'm not sure who's gone to DI and port. It looks like mr_boring has one lol and he don't see too happy with it.

Oh no, not at all - I actually love it. So what if it gets a little gas in it? I change it fairly often @ about 7000k mile intervals.

it's a 2.7 twin turbo in an F150

 

[OVERKILL]

A few posts back. Turns out that PP 10w-30 is more like a typical 5w-30. Both PP 10w-30 and PP 5w-30 are showing around 5,000 cP at -25c. It's almost like they put 5w-30 in both bottles.

I saw the claim, it's in the post I quoted, but I'd like to see the actual PDS, because there are a couple of factors in play here:

1. CCS for the 10W-xx Winter grade is measured at -25C, not -30C, so if they are providing it at a non-standard temperature, they would also provide it at the standard temperature, is that the case?

2. Multigrade oils are required to be labelled at the lowest Winter grade they meet, so if an oil meets the CCS requirements for a 5W-30, it would need to be labelled as a 5W-30 unless the MRV somehow wasn't met, which is unlikely, as it's almost always CCS that fails first. The number quoted here, 4,570cP @ -30C is well within the range for a 5W-30, so the oil could not be labelled as a 10W-30 if this is accurate.

The most likely explanation? The PDS is wrong and it should say -25C instead of -30C, unless, as I note, they are providing the figures for both temperatures on the PDS.

 

[CarlB]

Isn't there a low speed pre-ignition issue too with DI engines too?
All good reasons to also include port injection.

That is due to the difficulty of atomization.

 

[oil pan 4]

I saw the claim, it's in the post I quoted, but I'd like to see the actual PDS, because there are a couple of factors in play here:

1. CCS for the 10W-xx Winter grade is measured at -25C, not -30C, so if they are providing it at a non-standard temperature, they would also provide it at the standard temperature, is that the case?

2. Multigrade oils are required to be labelled at the lowest Winter grade they meet, so if an oil meets the CCS requirements for a 5W-30, it would need to be labelled as a 5W-30 unless the MRV somehow wasn't met, which is unlikely, as it's almost always CCS that fails first. The number quoted here, 4,570cP @ -30C is well within the range for a 5W-30, so the oil could not be labelled as a 10W-30 if this is accurate.

The most likely explanation? The PDS is wrong and it should say -25C instead of -30C, unless, as I note, they are providing the figures for both temperatures on the PDS.

Yeah could be a typo.

 

[OilUzer]

...
The only thing that fixes fuel dilution is running it on the highway for extended time or changing the oil.

To get the oil from a stinky 4% to 5% of fuel down to less stinky 2% takes about an hour drive at 75mph ...

Q1:
This is a loaded question but what's an acceptable or reasonable or typical fuel % range in an engine oil for an average driver? Do oil companies have a targeted or a nominal range that they work with?

To really drive the fuel out of the oil it needs more like 4 to 5hr of driving at 75mph that will get it below a half percent ...

Q2:
Assuming 0.5% is ideal/acceptable, does it really take 4-5 hrs of driving @ 75mph to achieve that?

I don't have much short trips and was never concerned with fuel dilution and never done any UOA and basically never paid much attention to fuel dilution subjects. However, was under impression that if the engine gets hot enough (e.g. 30-60 minutes of freeway driving & not in OD), all or most of the fuel are gone! Seems like I am way off and need to drive more. lol
Assuming these numbers are undisputed!

Also my apologies if my questions have already been answered.
I only read page 1 of 5 so far.

 

[oil pan 4]

For 1 it seems like anything over 1% is not desirable. Ideally fuel dilution stays around a half precent. Depending on the OEM their acceptable levels are anywhere from 2% to 4%, yeah I easily got that.
2 it appears for this car it needs more than 1 to 2 hours of highway driving to burn nearly all the oil out of the fuel. 1 to 2 hours seems to get fuel dilution down to 2% or less. Longer run times, could be a half hour longer or 3 hours longer get most of that last 2%. Fuel seems to build up quickly and once it's in it doesn't want to leave.
Some of the other 5 pages is nerding out on winter oil grades 10w vs 5w, what temperature will be needed to drive the gasoline out of the oil.
Me wife's car is at 3,000 miles on the oil change as of today, normally I'd just run it till it gets cold and change the oil.
So I just need to add a quick oil change plug to the car and dust off the vacuum dryer before it gets cold.

 

[CarlB]

I hit 240 oil temps in a few minutes of driving around here. Considering trying an Italian tune up.

 

[oil pan 4]

Oh no, not at all - I actually love it. So what if it gets a little gas in it? I change it fairly often @ about 7000k mile intervals.

it's a 2.7 twin turbo in an F150

7,000 miles is fine as long as there's a healthy amount of highway driving and shearing isn't killing the viscosity.
The oil flowing through the turbos maybe enough to drive the gasoline out of the oil.

I hit 240 oil temps in a few minutes of driving around here. Considering trying an Italian tune up.

I have tried that. I need temperature and time. If I drive with overdrive off and raise the oil temperature 10 to 20F I'll still need to hold it at that temperature for around an hour to get good gasoline burn off. It's just not going to happen quickly.
Running it in sport mode and eliminating most of the stop/starts definitely helps.
A 440F piston should be quite hostile to the existence of liquid gasoline.

 

[oil pan 4]

Well this appears doable.
Gasoline is normally distilled at or above atmospheric pressure at 160F. Then there's hydrocracked gasoil that's added to the gasoline. This appears to make the heaviest fractions of gasoline boil off at around 400F at atmospheric pressure. Just heating motor oil up to 400F will at least start to fry the VII so my 5w won't be acting like a 5w any more so probably shouldn't go that far as the whole point of this is to remove gasoline from oil during winter. If it fries out the VII then it's no good.
It appears 80% of gasoline boils off at 300F under atmospheric pressure, that's excellent news. Under vacuum it could easily be 90%.
5 quarts of oil will weigh about 7lb. At 5% fuel dilution that's about a half pound of fuel.
To heat the oil closer to the desired temperature I'll simply use the car it's self. That'll get me around 200f. Plus hot oil will flow about ten times faster into the reclamation vessel vs starting with cold oil. Time is of the essence.
Oil heats up easily, 1 BTU of heat can raise the temperature of 2lb of oil 1 degree F or 1lb of oil 2 degrees F.
The latent heat of vaporization of gasoline is around 133btu per pound.
The act of pulling a half pound of fuel out of the oil will try to take up to let's say 70btu with it as it goes.
200f oil/gasoline mixture will likely start rapidly off gasing upon exposure to vacuum.
To heat 7lb of oil starting at 200F up to say 300F and drive off a half pound of gasoline I'll only need to input like 420BTUs plus say 100BTUs for other losses.

 

[CarlB]

7,000 miles is fine as long as there's a healthy amount of highway driving and shearing isn't killing the viscosity.
The oil flowing through the turbos maybe enough to drive the gasoline out of the oil.


I have tried that. I need temperature and time. If I drive with overdrive off and raise the oil temperature 10 to 20F I'll still need to hold it at that temperature for around an hour to get good gasoline burn off. It's just not going to happen quickly.
Running it in sport mode and eliminating most of the stop/starts definitely helps.
A 440F piston should be quite hostile to the existence of liquid gasoline.
View attachment 236581

Full throttle, slow down, full throttle, repeat. It doesn't take a lot of time to build temperature unless you are at low load.

 

[SHOZ]

I bet my Accent in the winter has a hard time getting the oil to 180F. It takes a half hour sometimes to get the thermostat to open initially at 192F. And even if at 192F after getting to town and using the gears that drops below 180F.

Same with my Gen Coupe. To get over 220F in the winter you would have to be flat out driving it.