Reclaiming fuel contaminated oil

[oil pan 4]

Being a synthetic is irrelevant, it’s an oil with a 10W winter rating. How do you know it’s “anywhere near” the limit?

Sure it may pump at -15 as you said earlier but at that temperature I’d prefer an oil with a 5W rating.

Exactly. That 10w is supposed to be pumpable at -15f, after it's been ran for say 4,000 miles is it really?
After 4,000 miles that 10w may be trying to act more like a 15w.

 

[SHOZ]

On the V8 SHO Taurus I had I ran a semi sealed PCV. Closed off the fresh air intake and had a catch can for the PCV ventilation. The factory PCV valve would maintain around 6"-7"Hg vacuum when the intake was under vacuum. When no vacuum the catch can vented from a spring loaded check valve that was open when not under vacuum.

 

[oil pan 4]

On the V8 SHO Taurus I had I ran a semi sealed PCV. Closed off the fresh air intake and had a catch can for the PCV ventilation. The factory PCV valve would maintain around 6"-7"Hg vacuum when the intake was under vacuum. When no vacuum the catch can vented from a spring loaded check valve that was open when not under vacuum.

This is going to be like 27 inches of Hg.

 

[SHOZ]

This is going to be like 27 inches of Hg.

To reclaim but with constant vacuum on the actual crankcase it cuts down on the fuel dilution, I surmise.

 

[oil pan 4]

To reclaim but with constant vacuum on the actual crankcase it cuts down on the fuel dilution, I surmise.

I'm sure it doesn't hurt.
Gasoline is distilled at atmospheric pressure or greater it appears. So heating it up to around 200f under a slight vacuum will definitely drive off some gasoline. It may even cause the gas to become so volatile it may never make it into the sump.

 

[coolformula]

I wished we would ban DI in gas cars. I just don't see the benefits.

What about cars that IDLE a lot? Just don't seem the best course. Between dirty valves and oil dilutation why can't we just go back to MPI?

 

[SHOZ]

I should hook up a vacuum gauge to my crankcase on the turbo. It has a check valve on both ends of the system. It would be interesting to see what the crankcase pressure is at normal cruising vacuum as well as WOT and high boost.

 

[Rmay635703]

Being a synthetic is irrelevant, it’s an oil with a 10W winter rating. How do you know it’s “anywhere near” the limit?

Sure it may pump at -15 as you said earlier but at that temperature I’d prefer an oil with a 5W rating.

Might be preferable but then I have to change oil every 1500 miles .

And yes synthetic does make a difference as many 10w30 synthetic oils will perform near identical to the 5w30 Dino oil at -13F per the spec sheets for the oil in question. My one vehicle allows 10w30 per the manual down to -15F

A no-VM oil will not shear but it won’t be better at lowering viscosity due to fuel.

Yet the accepted knowledge is that if you have a dilution machine you stick with as close to a straight grade as you can.

Empirically the original starting viscosity of most 10w30’s is near the upper end of the 30w range whereas typical 0w30’s are closer to the bottom.

My own experience with it on 2 cars that make oil is that with the spec’d 5w30 I get a box of hammers around 1500-2000 miles.
PP 10w30 I can have a more normal change interval of 3000-5000 miles, burns much less oil and the engine doesn’t get anywhere near as noisy as it does on 5w30 even at the full 5000 mile change interval .

Been having to do this song and dance 70,000 miles so far, I’m doubting lack of lubrication due to using 10w30 a month of winter will cause the engine failure (vehicle is very very likely to be junked due to other issues)

Worth noting that certain 30’s/40’s era motors would specify an emergency winter mix of gasoline and motor oil if you didn’t have access to a winter grade so you could “get home” to change the oil. It had a bunch of limitations on speed , max power and distance.
Will see if I can find a scan of that again.

 

[oil pan 4]

I wished we would ban DI in gas cars. I just don't see the benefits.

What about cars that IDLE a lot? Just don't seem the best course. Between dirty valves and oil dilutation why can't we just go back to MPI?

We have. Kinda. The latest generation of "DI engines" have both port injection and DI. For raw power port injectors were always better. If the OEMs are smart they'd utilize port injection while the engine is cold too.

 

[oil pan 4]

Might be preferable but then I have to change oil every 1500 miles .

And yes synthetic does make a difference as many 10w30 synthetic oils will perform near identical to the 5w30 Dino oil at -13F per the spec sheets for the oil in question. My one vehicle allows 10w30 per the manual down to -15F

View attachment 236365



Yet the accepted knowledge is that if you have a dilution machine you stick with as close to a straight grade as you can.

Empirically the original starting viscosity of most 10w30’s is near the upper end of the 30w range whereas typical 0w30’s are closer to the bottom.

My own experience with it on 2 cars that make oil is that with the spec’d 5w30 I get a box of hammers around 1500-2000 miles.
PP 10w30 I can have a more normal change interval of 3000-5000 miles, burns much less oil and the engine doesn’t get anywhere near as noisy as it does on 5w30 even at the full 5000 mile change interval .

Been having to do this song and dance 70,000 miles so far, I’m doubting lack of lubrication due to using 10w30 a month of winter will cause the engine failure (vehicle is very very likely to be junked due to other issues)

Worth noting that certain 30’s/40’s era motors would specify an emergency winter mix of gasoline and motor oil if you didn’t have access to a winter grade so you could “get home” to change the oil. It had a bunch of limitations on speed , max power and distance.
Will see if I can find a scan of that again.

PP seems quite sufficient in the winter.
Seems better to judge individual products and not just look at the blanket winter rating.
So it would seem PP 10w-30 is at least as good as the API spec for a lot of 5w oils.
Are they putting the same stuff in the PP 5w and 10w bottles possibly?
Yeah old army trick was to mix some diesel in with the oil to get the trucks to crank over and have oil pressure when they fire, probably hasn't been necessary since the advent of multi grade oils.

Looks like PP 5w-30 has a viscosity of let's call it 4,800 cP at -30c and 10,500 cP at -35c so your rig should still chooch even at -35c assuming your battery isn't frozen solid.

 

[kschachn]

Might be preferable but then I have to change oil every 1500 miles .

And yes synthetic does make a difference as many 10w30 synthetic oils will perform near identical to the 5w30 Dino oil at -13F per the spec sheets for the oil in question. My one vehicle allows 10w30 per the manual down to -15F

View attachment 236365



Yet the accepted knowledge is that if you have a dilution machine you stick with as close to a straight grade as you can.

Empirically the original starting viscosity of most 10w30’s is near the upper end of the 30w range whereas typical 0w30’s are closer to the bottom.

My own experience with it on 2 cars that make oil is that with the spec’d 5w30 I get a box of hammers around 1500-2000 miles.
PP 10w30 I can have a more normal change interval of 3000-5000 miles, burns much less oil and the engine doesn’t get anywhere near as noisy as it does on 5w30 even at the full 5000 mile change interval .

Been having to do this song and dance 70,000 miles so far, I’m doubting lack of lubrication due to using 10w30 a month of winter will cause the engine failure (vehicle is very very likely to be junked due to other issues)

Worth noting that certain 30’s/40’s era motors would specify an emergency winter mix of gasoline and motor oil if you didn’t have access to a winter grade so you could “get home” to change the oil. It had a bunch of limitations on speed , max power and distance.
Will see if I can find a scan of that again.

You can skip finding the article about "30's/40's era motors", I know about diluting a fluid with one of lower-viscosity and what that does. Thanks anyway. Why it is relevant to today I'm not certain. That is the whole reason for decent winter ratings so that you do not lower the operating viscosity while permitting cranking and pumping at low temperatures. They probably adulterated the horse's water prior to that so it wouldn't freeze in the winter either.

Yes some oils may be closer to the limits of a 10W oil than others but if you're able to predict that just by base stock composition then you are better than me. I know you can have more viscous synthetic stocks too which may actually be close to the limit of a 15W. I'll just stick to the rating on the container and not try and imagine I'm fine tuning my choice. If I want better winter performance then I'll chose an oil with a 5W rating or a 0W. At least this is guaranteed to perform.

As for your box of hammers, that is influenced by many things. I'll leave that one open.

 

[mr_boring]

The only thing that fixes fuel dilution is running it on the highway for extended time or changing the oil. .

I am not so sure about the highway part. My real world scenarios include changing my oil after a long highway run ~75 miles. Still reeks of gas. Yes, I'm aware that my nose is not a gas chro spec sciency machine.+

Why not just drive aggressively to build oil temperature to 220-240?

Maybe Cause Stone Cold doesn't drive it like he stole it. I don't (very often)

Since the oil is going to get diluted, why use “great oil”?

Why not use “good” at a lower price point, and dump it when it gets contaminated?

Either way, you’re under the car, draining the oil out. Whether you put the drained oil in your oil reclamation device, or simply recycle it, the amount of labor getting it out is the same.

But the amount of labor to reclaim it, in order to save a couple bucks on the oil, doesn’t seem like a very good return on the investment of all that time in reclamation.

Driving for an hour costs significantly more than a new jug of oil anyway, so don’t bother driving off the fuel. That’s a waste of both time and money.

Word.

Step up to the next higher viscosity and don't let the 5% Diluters Club Members bother you. That percentage will not lower wear protection.

Want to toss & turn in bed every night? Then creep up right next to the 10% Club Members. They keep Kleenex tissue boxes on a pillow next to them during the night -a clothespin across their noses, to fend-off the smell of gas and leave their pack of cigarettes and lighter on the kitchen table.
Otherwise, they have terrifying nightmares of Smokey The Bear chasing them.

Why not just top off low oil with gas instead of oil? Much cheaper. Or just pour in 1/2 quart gas every oil change? Save hundreds over your lifespan.

Fuel diluted oil should be great for fall/spring brush fires. Save it for me and i'll swing by with a drum.

And burning heretics like thickies.
And heretics like thinnies.
And heretics who don't run the same oil that other people here run. Especially those RP users.

Higher load is what will generate more heat, cruising on the highway isn't really a great way to raise oil temps as you have plenty of airflow and low overall engine load. It's a very gradual rise that hits equilibrium.

Yeah, like the other CarlB guy who advocates driving the snot out of your ride. Redline that sun of a gun till she's guzzoline free.

We have. Kinda. The latest generation of "DI engines" have both port injection and DI. For raw power port injectors were always better. If the OEMs are smart they'd utilize port injection while the engine is cold too.

I got one of them. See above, quote #1. I don't think it works as intended in my application.

I like this guy. He's pretty cool in a BITOGy way.

 

[coolformula]

We have. Kinda. The latest generation of "DI engines" have both port injection and DI. For raw power port injectors were always better. If the OEMs are smart they'd utilize port injection while the engine is cold too.

Do you know what cars have this? When I was recently looking the RAV4 has this some fords. But the majority of cars I saw did not. Honda, mazda etc.

I wished all cars had both, but I prefer just to ditch GDI and just use MPI.

Oil lasts longer, easier to troubleshoot fuel injection, parts are cheaper, valves get cleaned. GDI seems like something is being "forced".

 

[oil pan 4]

Do you know what cars have this? When I was recently looking the RAV4 has this some fords. But the majority of cars I saw did not. Honda, mazda etc.

I wished all cars had both, but I prefer just to ditch GDI and just use MPI.

Oil lasts longer, easier to troubleshoot fuel injection, parts are cheaper, valves get cleaned. GDI seems like something is being "forced".

It's absolutely being forced by unelected bureaucrats in the EPA. The EPA is always squeezing OEMs for more fuel economy and less NOx.
I'm not sure who's gone to DI and port. It looks like mr_boring has one lol and he don't see too happy with it.

 

[Patman]

I know that a lot of people in here hate direct injection because of the fuel dilution issues, but it does have major benefits. It allows an engine to make more power and be more fuel efficient so it’s a win win from that standpoint. And not all DI engines have fuel dilution issues. My Corvette doesn’t have that problem at all. I love the fact that I have a 455 horsepower engine that gets me over 35 MPG on highway trips.

 

[oil pan 4]

I know that a lot of people in here hate direct injection because of the fuel dilution issues, but it does have major benefits. It allows an engine to make more power and be more fuel efficient so it’s a win win from that standpoint. And not all DI engines have fuel dilution issues. My Corvette doesn’t have that problem at all. I love the fact that I have a 455 horsepower engine that gets me over 35 MPG on highway trips.

I don't know about DI making more power. Didn't Subaru keep the sti port injected? I heard it was because the port injection version made more power.
I heard the push for DI was largely because of NOx and fuel economy.
I agree not all DI engines suffer from fuel dilution, cars driven mostly on the highway don't seem to have that problem. Also DI designs that aim the injectors fuel spray at the middle of the piston like a diesel engine get less fuel dilution than engines that aim the injectors at an angle to the cylinder bores and spray fuel on the cylinder bores.

 

[CarlB]

I don't know about DI making more power. Didn't Subaru keep the sti port injected? I heard it was because the port injection version made more power.
I heard the push for DI was largely because of NOx and fuel economy.
I agree not all DI engines suffer from fuel dilution, cars driven mostly on the highway don't seem to have that problem. Also DI designs that aim the injectors fuel spray at the middle of the piston like a diesel engine get less fuel dilution than engines that aim the injectors at an angle to the cylinder bores and spray fuel on the cylinder bores.

The STi was port injected because the EJ engine it used is from the 90s. The FA20 for the more recent WRX's is direct injected, since it is modern. There are plenty of engines with DI making more power than an STi. The GenV small block that @Patman is referring to hit the flow limits of their original design with the LT5 ZR1 engine, so GM added port injection to work in tandem with the DI.

tldr: STi isn't a tale about DI vs Port. It's just an old engine.

 

[OVERKILL]

Might be preferable but then I have to change oil every 1500 miles .

And yes synthetic does make a difference as many 10w30 synthetic oils will perform near identical to the 5w30 Dino oil at -13F per the spec sheets for the oil in question. My one vehicle allows 10w30 per the manual down to -15F

View attachment 236365



Yet the accepted knowledge is that if you have a dilution machine you stick with as close to a straight grade as you can.

Empirically the original starting viscosity of most 10w30’s is near the upper end of the 30w range whereas typical 0w30’s are closer to the bottom.

My own experience with it on 2 cars that make oil is that with the spec’d 5w30 I get a box of hammers around 1500-2000 miles.
PP 10w30 I can have a more normal change interval of 3000-5000 miles, burns much less oil and the engine doesn’t get anywhere near as noisy as it does on 5w30 even at the full 5000 mile change interval .

Been having to do this song and dance 70,000 miles so far, I’m doubting lack of lubrication due to using 10w30 a month of winter will cause the engine failure (vehicle is very very likely to be junked due to other issues)

Worth noting that certain 30’s/40’s era motors would specify an emergency winter mix of gasoline and motor oil if you didn’t have access to a winter grade so you could “get home” to change the oil. It had a bunch of limitations on speed , max power and distance.
Will see if I can find a scan of that again.

Where's the CCS for the 10W-30 at -30C coming from? CCS for a 10W-xx is measured at -25C.

 

[oil pan 4]

The STi was port injected because the EJ engine it used is from the 90s. The FA20 for the more recent WRX's is direct injected, since it is modern. There are plenty of engines with DI making more power than an STi. The GenV small block that @Patman is referring to hit the flow limits of their original design with the LT5 ZR1 engine, so GM added port injection to work in tandem with the DI.

tldr: STi isn't a tale about DI vs Port. It's just an old engine.

I heard gm added port injection with DI to maintain power and add more power and the DI is for fuel economy. As I understand it, that engine runs mostly on DI.

 

[CarlB]

I heard gm added port injection with DI to maintain power and add more power and the DI is for fuel economy. As I understand it, that engine runs mostly on DI.

DI allows for more precise control over fueling, but has less degrees of crank rotation for atomization. I can't say the percentage it runs on DI vs Port, since that all depends on the mapping and driver behavior.