Agree. All it takes is some simple foot/hand/eye coordination. Problem is many folks DON'T want to go thru the trouble. It is fairly easy to learn. I have taught several individuals successfully. I had ONE failing student who just couldn't get it. And I think it was because they didn't want to be bothered.
Manual transmission "snobs"?
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Agree. All it takes is some simple foot/hand/eye coordination. Problem is many folks DON'T want to go thru the trouble. It is fairly easy to learn. I have taught several individuals successfully. I had ONE failing student who just couldn't get it. And I think it was because they didn't want to be bothered.
Why are you going so fast downhill that you warp or glaze the disks? Learn the basics of how to drive safely without hurting other people around you; drive cautiously, use your brakes, and replace your pads when they wear out.
By citing this as an advantage for AT, you just reinforced my assertion that driving a MT demands more concentration. But it doesn’t follow that an AT is dangerous because it allows people to eat, talk on the phone, or distract themselves in other ways. Like I said before, inattentive drivers are dangerous no matter what kind of car they drive.
I grew-up on the tundra and it doesn’t matter if you have AT or MT – ice is ice and you slip around no matter what. It is easier with MT in some cases, like getting unstuck, but if you drive carefully on 90% of the civilized roads you won’t go zipping through stop signs causing mayhem. Stop trying to make it sound worse than it is!
I’ve been driving motorcycles for a long time and you’re wrong – you haven’t seen those huge automatic scooters without a downpipe and side-saddles sticking out? Commuters drive them all the time. Of course, cycles are the ultimate performance leisure activity when you’re not doing everyday stuff. I’ll take one any day over a MT sports car. You can’t compare, though, on a bike it’s always us against the cars.
The market is you and I. If a whole lot of people go to the store and ask for Coke and only you ask for root beer - guess what? The store is going to stock more Coke than root beer. Get it?
Where do you get your information man? They want to phase out MT to simplify inventory? Like they already have so much trouble keeping track of the millions of pieces of inventory it takes to build a car that phasing out the MT is going to help keep things organized?
I’ll say it again: If a whole lot of people go to the store and ask for Coke and only you ask for root beer - guess what? The store is going to stock more Coke than root beer. It’s really a basic concept – give the customer what they want.
Win, you’re perfect. You just single handedly put to bed the whole argument that there is some kind some kind of Zen Oneness, skill, or years of experience required to master the art of pushing levers.
The synchronizers do the actual shifting. So, if someone is such a skilled driver because an MT makes you so in tuned with the car and closer to its mechanics – then doesn’t it follow that people would be even better drivers if we revert to unsynchronized gearboxes? All the MT proponents mistakenly believe that they’re more aware and safer because they work their cars harder.
People like Win know immediately that there is a much higher level of skill and experience needed to operate these gearboxes.
The idea that it takes any skill to drive a modern-day MT is nonsense. A 16 year-old girl can learn with a few hours of practice.
lol.. this thread is getting ridiculous. AT safer?? hahaha, please. You gotta be kidding. There's got to be a stat somewhere including AT vs MT cars in accidents.. but I'm sure we'd find two sides to that stat too lol
Most cars sold with AT... ok, maybe in 'eat-to-much-good-ol-North-America' lol. Not true anywhere else in the world.
Anyhoo, no point arguing the inarguable. But I bet ya those who drive MT's have also driven AT's, and can therefore see both sides and have made an informed decision. I'm not sure that's true for the majority of AT drivers.
I'm not saying AT's are the devil, and there are some great automatics out there.. but we're comparing apples and oranges here, two different beast altogether.
Would I buy a car with an AT? Maybe, like a Honda Pilot or other big truck, but only if there was no other alternative.
Most cars sold with AT... ok, maybe in 'eat-to-much-good-ol-North-America' lol. Not true anywhere else in the world.
Anyhoo, no point arguing the inarguable. But I bet ya those who drive MT's have also driven AT's, and can therefore see both sides and have made an informed decision. I'm not sure that's true for the majority of AT drivers.
I'm not saying AT's are the devil, and there are some great automatics out there.. but we're comparing apples and oranges here, two different beast altogether.
Would I buy a car with an AT? Maybe, like a Honda Pilot or other big truck, but only if there was no other alternative.
I still stand by this one.
Then why are many people, including some that own standards, so terrible at it? It certainly doesn't take more than a couple of minutes to learn how to move a car with a standard from point A to point B, but it takes a little while to get good enough that you would do better on a track with a standard than an auto.
The existence of synchros does not affect the direct connection from engine to wheels or your ability to hold the car in whatever gear you choose. And double-clutching is not that difficult; I do it on most downshifts because I like how the shifter just slips into place.
I will agree with you that the lack of standard transmissions on dealer lots is due entirely to lack of demand. But in the right car, in the right area, standards are readily available. I had a good selection of standard Mazda3s to choose from when I bought mine. I'm sure I could have gotten any colour with any options within a week, but most combinations were already on the lot. Low population density makes for enjoyable driving!
"I’ve been driving motorcycles for a long time and you’re wrong – you haven’t seen those huge automatic scooters without a downpipe and side-saddles sticking out?"
Scooters and such have typically been automatics, but it's a moot point from a performance perspective. Bikes with automatics have been around off and on over the years, but the only ones that seem to have stayed in a model line have been the motobagos, big scooters really, and again it's a moot point considering performance. It can be hard keeping the wheel down or the rear wheel spin under control at speed on a fast corner with a manual gearbox, and just plain dangerous with a tranny that decides on it's own when to change gears.
Scooters and such have typically been automatics, but it's a moot point from a performance perspective. Bikes with automatics have been around off and on over the years, but the only ones that seem to have stayed in a model line have been the motobagos, big scooters really, and again it's a moot point considering performance. It can be hard keeping the wheel down or the rear wheel spin under control at speed on a fast corner with a manual gearbox, and just plain dangerous with a tranny that decides on it's own when to change gears.
I grew-up on the tundra and it doesn’t matter if you have AT or MT – ice is ice and you slip around no matter what. "It is easier with MT in some cases, like getting unstuck, but if you drive carefully on 90% of the civilized roads you won’t go zipping through stop signs causing mayhem. Stop trying to make it sound worse than it is!"
99.9% isn't even close to being good enough, much less 90%. The NHTSA even agrees that ABS braking systems result in worse performance on snow and gravel, and with an automatic all that you have to slow down with is the brakes.
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca/lvabs.htm
For example, ABS-equipped vehicles are known to have poorer performance on gravel and snow.
99.9% isn't even close to being good enough, much less 90%. The NHTSA even agrees that ABS braking systems result in worse performance on snow and gravel, and with an automatic all that you have to slow down with is the brakes.
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca/lvabs.htm
For example, ABS-equipped vehicles are known to have poorer performance on gravel and snow.
"By citing this as an advantage for AT, you just reinforced my assertion that driving a MT demands more concentration."
It is not an advantage but the fact that you think it is reinforces the observation about why so many people like their automatics, which is to be able to engage in so many other non-driving activities. Most people these days won't use a stick because they can't easily talk on theor cell phones.
The MT demands more concentration, which most people would agree is a good thing when driving.
It is not an advantage but the fact that you think it is reinforces the observation about why so many people like their automatics, which is to be able to engage in so many other non-driving activities. Most people these days won't use a stick because they can't easily talk on theor cell phones.
The MT demands more concentration, which most people would agree is a good thing when driving.
"Why are you going so fast downhill that you warp or glaze the disks? Learn the basics of how to drive safely without hurting other people around you; drive cautiously, use your brakes, and replace your pads when they wear out."
We live on a hill, one steep enough that the city often shuts down a couple of roads on the hill. I don't have problems going down the hill in my 3/4 ton truck with the stick, even in the winter, while both sedans have anti-engine braking, where the speed picks up quickly unless you're on the brakes all the time. I teach the family to brake, release, brake, release, etc., as otherwise we go thru lots of discs and pads.
Not too long ago I drove one of the cars after my daughter had driven it for awhile, and the brakes weren't working well at all. At the bottom of the hill I noticed that they were glazed over and very hot from the increased braking tyring to keep the speed down. It turns out that my daughter's friends didn't like the jerky brake and release, and they talked her into riding the brakes all the way down the hill, which she started doing. She doesn't do that anymore, but it wouldn't be an issue if it weren't for the stupid tranny.
We live on a hill, one steep enough that the city often shuts down a couple of roads on the hill. I don't have problems going down the hill in my 3/4 ton truck with the stick, even in the winter, while both sedans have anti-engine braking, where the speed picks up quickly unless you're on the brakes all the time. I teach the family to brake, release, brake, release, etc., as otherwise we go thru lots of discs and pads.
Not too long ago I drove one of the cars after my daughter had driven it for awhile, and the brakes weren't working well at all. At the bottom of the hill I noticed that they were glazed over and very hot from the increased braking tyring to keep the speed down. It turns out that my daughter's friends didn't like the jerky brake and release, and they talked her into riding the brakes all the way down the hill, which she started doing. She doesn't do that anymore, but it wouldn't be an issue if it weren't for the stupid tranny.
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As long as there are two pedals some morons will still mix up those pedals.
One last point. People seem to confuse 'automatic', where the gears are selected automatically by the transmission, with some types of 'automatic' transmissions that enable manual gear selection. We hear people extolling the virtues of automatics because manually shifting gears is so antediluvian, but manually selecting gears with a 'clutchless' transmission is still manually selecting gears. People can choose to not use a clutch for whatever reason, but don't berate people for manually shifting with a clutch if you choose to manually shift without one.
Ouch, you made a very good point.
My point was that, having grown up in the North, most people will be just fine in an AT, it's not that bad. But it's easier to get through the snow and ice when you control the car with a MT, you're right - I'm wrong.
-I think I misunderstood what you were trying to say about motorcycles, sorry. I can't compare a car to a cycle because they are just so different.
-You misunderstood me that I think it's an advantage to be distracted in an AT. Just showing that you need to concentrate more on MT. But it doesn't make sense to say that just because you can be distracted in AT, you will. Inattentive drivers are dangerous no matter what kind of car they drive.
-You have a special situation on a hill. I got carried away and shouldn't have singled out one person I don't know - apologies for being rude. I'm sure you can sort out what works best for you.
All the Fords I have seen in the last 15 or so model years, the tach is 6000 rpm and no designated redline. That means, one style tach for all those cars. Sure there will be exceptions, perhaps for the Mustang, but largely they want simplified inventoy.
Sporty cars will be available with manual transmissions, but sedans generally not stocked that way on the lot if even available.
When the new F150s came out in (I think it was 04) you could not get a manual transmission. Not sure you can yet.
Yeah, of course people go in asking for an automatic tranny, if they ask at all. They pretty much expect it because that's all most people know.
(Off-topic...kinda): Why do some if not most pickups have higher payload capacities with ATs than with MTs? My little 4-banger Frontier had a higher payload than the big, bad, 4wd, V6, MT trucks.
"Why do some if not most pickups have higher payload capacities with ATs than with MTs?"
Margin. The engineers can better control the load to the powertrain with an automatic, especially the newer ones that use lots of 'torque management' by decreasing engine power. I recall one owner of an older truck with a manual saying that when he delivered a heavier than rated load to someone on a ranch with a new truck that had an auto, a truck that had a higher power rating, that the owner couldn't even budge the load. The guy with the older truck had to move the load for him.
Margin. The engineers can better control the load to the powertrain with an automatic, especially the newer ones that use lots of 'torque management' by decreasing engine power. I recall one owner of an older truck with a manual saying that when he delivered a heavier than rated load to someone on a ranch with a new truck that had an auto, a truck that had a higher power rating, that the owner couldn't even budge the load. The guy with the older truck had to move the load for him.
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