Manual transmission "snobs"?
- Thread starter LouDawg
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To answer the original question, if you have to ask, then you probably wouldn't understand anyway. Really.
agreed, well put
A friend of mine wants me to teach him on my car.. ahahaha. He doesn't understand why everyone keeps telling him no when he asks them the same question. I told him to get his own 5 spd and would be happy to teach him how in his own car lol
Three people have learned on my truck. I wonder how much that shortened the clutch life? LOL. Truth be told, the learning part probably did not do as much damage as dumping the clutch over and over again. All seems to be well at 85,500 miles though. We'll see how long it lasts.
My friend got a manual Sunfire as his first car and was brutal with it. The clutch was toast by 35,000 miles!
My friend got a manual Sunfire as his first car and was brutal with it. The clutch was toast by 35,000 miles!
See below for the Duramax FAQ, with an honest observation on the Allison transmission. The 'best light-truck automatic transmission', as long as it's working I guess. Owners have commented that multiple dealers couldn't fix a problem stranding them on the road, which turned out to be very small metal slivers in the ATF shorting out a solenoid.
http://www.thedieselpage.com/duramax/durafaq.htm
Duramax 6600 FAQ
Q: Any truth to the rumors we're hearing about Allison automatic transmission failures?
A: Like most any currently produced computer controlled automatic transmission, there are lots of individual components that would disable the transmission should one of those parts fail or not function properly. So, yes, there have been a number of Allison problems reported. Most of these were due to minor issues such as fluid leaks, sticky solenoids, loose wiring connectors, and the like. However, no Allison 1000 Series 5-speed automatic has failed because of the load it was asked to pull. This transmission has proven itself to be virtually bulletproof for pulling max GCVW loads (22,000 lbs) in the hottest desert heat. This is simply the best light-truck automatic transmission.
http://www.thedieselpage.com/duramax/durafaq.htm
Duramax 6600 FAQ
Q: Any truth to the rumors we're hearing about Allison automatic transmission failures?
A: Like most any currently produced computer controlled automatic transmission, there are lots of individual components that would disable the transmission should one of those parts fail or not function properly. So, yes, there have been a number of Allison problems reported. Most of these were due to minor issues such as fluid leaks, sticky solenoids, loose wiring connectors, and the like. However, no Allison 1000 Series 5-speed automatic has failed because of the load it was asked to pull. This transmission has proven itself to be virtually bulletproof for pulling max GCVW loads (22,000 lbs) in the hottest desert heat. This is simply the best light-truck automatic transmission.
No big deal. If you've got cash like zippy, they'll just bring you a new truck within minutes!
I am sure the folks who have waited or walked in that desert heat were comforted by the fact that it was just a minor issue such as a sticky solenoid or a loose wiring connection.
If we all had quick cash like zippy, maby they could send someone along to shine our shoes before the tow truck ride!
If we all had quick cash like zippy, maby they could send someone along to shine our shoes before the tow truck ride!
As much as I like MT until you have tried the ZF 6-speed AT you just don't know how good an AT can be. And they learn how you drive. The harder you drive the quicker they change gears. No MT can get close IMO.
Does it read my mind and know when I want to downshift, different levels of clutch engagement, know when I want to pass a car before I step on the gas, etc, etc..
I've test driven a few good automatics, but there's no replacement no matter how advanced it is.
I did read the Jaguar had to recall nearly 70,000 cars with the ZF six speed automatic because of safety concerns. The transmissions would shift into reverse by itself if the fluid pressure dropped. This transmission also uses a torque converter and an electronic program to shift through the gears. Torque converters mean more heat, and the electronic transmission program uses solenoids to actuate the shifts. These items are much more likely to fail than my right arm or left leg.
I experienced the quality of the 5 speed ZF automatic in my wifes BMW 330ci, and it failed three times before 100,000 miles. No way I would go back for more of that, and yes it left us stranded. It was the reason we no longer own that 330ci.
I experienced the quality of the 5 speed ZF automatic in my wifes BMW 330ci, and it failed three times before 100,000 miles. No way I would go back for more of that, and yes it left us stranded. It was the reason we no longer own that 330ci.
Boy did I get blasted for my post as one of the few AT supporters, however, the arguments for AT are no less harsh than the arguments for MT.
Going back to the original post, it looks like the proponents for AT don't seem to care one way or the other, while those in the MT camp seem to be more venomous and staunch in their decision. There is a stronger need to defend their position indeed. Maybe this reaction, LouDawg, has more to do with economics than anything else - a deep seated envy for those who cruise along effortlessly and disdain at their own lives for not being able to afford that silky smooth AT. It's either that or a willful resistance to change and progress. You have to make the best of it though, and what better way than to exclaim that you drive that 4-cylinder MT Honda Accord by choice....and somehow it's more satisfying.
There are times when driving a MT is just pure bliss; with the right car at the right moment. But for the average driver, not many models of cars are exhilarating to drive and the moments are few and far between. For most, the only respite from the daily chaos is inside the car and a good AT affords even more precious chances to relax and enjoy the drive. Tell me that person in big city traffic, with his MT Ford Focus, is having one of these glorious MT experiences with the hot sun glaring in his eyes while he's trying to glance at a map, find the off-ramp, and mess with the pedals and shifter on his way to a job interview in unfamiliar territory.
An AT car is just much more comfortable and, at the risk of opening a new can of worms, safer. Inattentive drivers are dangerous no matter what kind of car they drive. But you have to be extra aware when driving a MT; you use sight and sound to look at the tach and hear the engine along with a hand and pedal dance. The car is going faster and you have only one hand on the wheel while the foot is not available for instantaneous braking. All of this takes you away from other stimuli you should be paying attention to like emergency vehicles, bicycles, little kids, etc...
This is the 21st century and, except for sport, the whole concept of changing gears is a concept that should have died with the carburetor. It's no mistake that the vast majority of cars sold are AT and, to quote Bob Elton, ".....the consumer has spoken. The millions of US buyers who opt for today's automatic transmissions do not do so because they are stupid, uncoordinated, unsafe or oblivious to the joys of driving. They do so because they know a good thing when they drive one."
The market dictates like it or not, and not everyone is wrong, AT is the way to go. All of the criticisms boil down to money and like I said - if you can't afford to keep a car, you should be taking the bus. Use your time to study, get a better job, and buy that MT sports car for fun. In the premium comfort of my AT car I'll have my hand on the sexy honey next to me, you all can just keep fondling that stick.
Going back to the original post, it looks like the proponents for AT don't seem to care one way or the other, while those in the MT camp seem to be more venomous and staunch in their decision. There is a stronger need to defend their position indeed. Maybe this reaction, LouDawg, has more to do with economics than anything else - a deep seated envy for those who cruise along effortlessly and disdain at their own lives for not being able to afford that silky smooth AT. It's either that or a willful resistance to change and progress. You have to make the best of it though, and what better way than to exclaim that you drive that 4-cylinder MT Honda Accord by choice....and somehow it's more satisfying.
There are times when driving a MT is just pure bliss; with the right car at the right moment. But for the average driver, not many models of cars are exhilarating to drive and the moments are few and far between. For most, the only respite from the daily chaos is inside the car and a good AT affords even more precious chances to relax and enjoy the drive. Tell me that person in big city traffic, with his MT Ford Focus, is having one of these glorious MT experiences with the hot sun glaring in his eyes while he's trying to glance at a map, find the off-ramp, and mess with the pedals and shifter on his way to a job interview in unfamiliar territory.
An AT car is just much more comfortable and, at the risk of opening a new can of worms, safer. Inattentive drivers are dangerous no matter what kind of car they drive. But you have to be extra aware when driving a MT; you use sight and sound to look at the tach and hear the engine along with a hand and pedal dance. The car is going faster and you have only one hand on the wheel while the foot is not available for instantaneous braking. All of this takes you away from other stimuli you should be paying attention to like emergency vehicles, bicycles, little kids, etc...
This is the 21st century and, except for sport, the whole concept of changing gears is a concept that should have died with the carburetor. It's no mistake that the vast majority of cars sold are AT and, to quote Bob Elton, ".....the consumer has spoken. The millions of US buyers who opt for today's automatic transmissions do not do so because they are stupid, uncoordinated, unsafe or oblivious to the joys of driving. They do so because they know a good thing when they drive one."
The market dictates like it or not, and not everyone is wrong, AT is the way to go. All of the criticisms boil down to money and like I said - if you can't afford to keep a car, you should be taking the bus. Use your time to study, get a better job, and buy that MT sports car for fun. In the premium comfort of my AT car I'll have my hand on the sexy honey next to me, you all can just keep fondling that stick.
LOL...nicely put, Zippy.
"An AT car is just much more comfortable and, at the risk of opening a new can of worms, safer."
It's not a can or worms, "It contains that which aids plant growth and it is very strong". The sedans that we have with autos pick up speed going downhill, and keep going faster and faster until you try to brake, and you need to brake in manner that doesn't warp or glaze the discs. I can just downshift with my stick and engine brake down the hills.
The auto enables people to chat on their phones or look at maps or diddle with the radio or dip their fries while doing 10mph less than everyone else in traffic.
Mashing on your brake in deeper snow or gravel with an auto and ABS can get you a free B ticket ride thru the stoplight or stop sign, while I can downshift with the stick and plow the snow and gravel for better stopping. I also find it's safer to engine brake in 4wd down with the stick on hills than braking in the 2wd cars with the autos that try to increase the speed down hill.
On ice and can't get going without spinning the tires ? Use a higher gear with the stick.
I drove motorcycles for 20 years, and I noticed that autos just didn't pan out like they did with cars and trucks. Since a fair number, me included, drove bikes for the performance, surely the superior technology, safety and performance of autos would have have lept aboard bikes, right ?
'Market forces' are typically driven by advertising. Watching a commercial the other night on TV I commented to my wife that I can't remember buying a product because of a commercial.
It's not a can or worms, "It contains that which aids plant growth and it is very strong". The sedans that we have with autos pick up speed going downhill, and keep going faster and faster until you try to brake, and you need to brake in manner that doesn't warp or glaze the discs. I can just downshift with my stick and engine brake down the hills.
The auto enables people to chat on their phones or look at maps or diddle with the radio or dip their fries while doing 10mph less than everyone else in traffic.
Mashing on your brake in deeper snow or gravel with an auto and ABS can get you a free B ticket ride thru the stoplight or stop sign, while I can downshift with the stick and plow the snow and gravel for better stopping. I also find it's safer to engine brake in 4wd down with the stick on hills than braking in the 2wd cars with the autos that try to increase the speed down hill.
On ice and can't get going without spinning the tires ? Use a higher gear with the stick.
I drove motorcycles for 20 years, and I noticed that autos just didn't pan out like they did with cars and trucks. Since a fair number, me included, drove bikes for the performance, surely the superior technology, safety and performance of autos would have have lept aboard bikes, right ?
'Market forces' are typically driven by advertising. Watching a commercial the other night on TV I commented to my wife that I can't remember buying a product because of a commercial.
Zippy,
I have to admit that many of the anti-automatic crowd come across as compensators, but you're coming across exactly the same way with your anti-manual stance. Why is it hard to understand that someone could think differently than you? Based on your comments proclaiming a standard transmission as something dangerous and difficult to operate, I have to suspect that you had a very difficult time when you last tried to drive a manual transmission and have since turned your back on it in spite.
We should all just be happy with the multitude of options available to us in this automotive free market and accept that each of us will have personal preferences. If the manual transmission was a $1500 option instead of a $1500 discount, I'd still be driving a stick.
I have to admit that many of the anti-automatic crowd come across as compensators, but you're coming across exactly the same way with your anti-manual stance. Why is it hard to understand that someone could think differently than you? Based on your comments proclaiming a standard transmission as something dangerous and difficult to operate, I have to suspect that you had a very difficult time when you last tried to drive a manual transmission and have since turned your back on it in spite.
We should all just be happy with the multitude of options available to us in this automotive free market and accept that each of us will have personal preferences. If the manual transmission was a $1500 option instead of a $1500 discount, I'd still be driving a stick.
There is another benefit to having a manual. Friends and family do NOT ask to borrow your car.
Most cars are sold with automatic transmissions because most cars on the lot already have an automatic. For many models, the car companies would like to phase out manual transmissions to simplify inventory and manufacturing. Many people never drove a manual and will never get to try since there are so few out there. If they did get the chance, they might find they like it. From the first day I drove a car in 1974 I always wanted a manual transmission. I find it fun in all but the worst of traffic jams.
OK, this seems to be a common assertion in this thread that there is some sort of skill involved in driving a car with a manual transmission. So, what exactly is so tough about it?
There might be some skill involved if you learned on an old unsychronized three on the tree (like many of us did), an old 4 speed Moss gearbox, or some of the other non or lousy synchro gear boxes, but there is zero skill involved in driving a modern synchronized manual transmission.
If you want to learn a real skill that involves using your feet, learn to fly. Sheesh.
Stop right there pal – I don’t troll around trying to stir things up. I may be provocative with my opinions, but I value the opinions on this board especially. This is one of the few boards around with really good information and intelligent members.
I may have to change my user ID the next time I need advice though.
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