Made the "switch" from M1 to Valvoline Synthetics

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That didn't link to the SDS, just the download page, but you'll note the 2018 SDS shows PAO, the more recent one doesn't.


It didn’t work as I thought. I checked the EP and it just has the usual Petroleum Distallates listed along with some other components.


In the end as long as it meets the specs it’s good to go.
 

OVERKILL

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So is it wrong to think that group 4 and group 5 bases are "better" than group 3? Sure has hpl likes gushing about their "better" oil bases pcmo.
No, in a vacuum, there are certain areas that PAO and the ester bases, like POE, have some easily quantified advantages. For PAO, that's oxidation resistance and cold temperature performance, for esters, also cold temperature performance, though not quite as good as PAO, and the ability to handle high heat. Esters also have excellent solvency (but so do AN's, which also fall under the Group V umbrella).

These bases also tend to have naturally higher VI's (AN's do not).

Both of these bases are also hard on seals, but in the opposite way. PAO has a tendency to shrink them, esters have a tendency to swell them. That's why they are typically used together to balance that out.

Ultimately though, as we know, the performance of the final product is what matters and it is possible to meet most, if not all of the performance targets with Group III. It's also possible to blend a PAO or ester based lube that does not perform as well as a Group III-based one because of competence in blending and additive package selection.

If Castrol could have avoided using PAO in their 0w-40 and still met their performance targets, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have. Their 5w-40, with similar approvals, of course doesn't have any PAO in it. Mobil has chosen to base their extended drain (EP and AP) 0w-20's almost entirely on PAO. There are very clear strengths that come with that base oil, but caveats as well that have to be dealt with. Then of course there is the cost. It is expensive (and so is POE). Mobil is in an advantageous position there, because they produce both bases in-house, most of their competitors do not.
 
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It's probably good to switch things up among the major synthetics. That way the engine gets different additive packages. Use one for a few intervals then change it up. Kind of interesting to see if you notice any differences between the different brands. Like how quiet the engine is with a certain one.
You think the engine is bored and wants to change up the oil additives ? Dont see any benefit. Just use a good product and stay with it.
 
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I’ve only used M1 or castrol for my engines but everybody I know that use Valvoline have nothing but goodthings to say about there products.
How would people know the difference over a few oil changes or even ten years of one oil brand ?
If the engine is running and not burning a ton of oil. People are happy. 15 diff brands you could use and all would be fine.
 
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I don't think that the engine is bored...

...some oil hoarders on this website though...
I have 10 percent of the hoarder level of oil. Likely 3 or 4 years worth of my 3 vehicles and two tractors and snowblowers...

No comment about changing up oil every few changes to get different additives ?

That is not what people would call a long term plan. Get whatever is in stock. Or is cheapest . Great. But switching brands for different additives ?
 

wtd

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👍

I haven't been impressed with Mobil 1 oils for years. When they were messing around with the formulas around Katrina hurricane time period, I jumped ship.
Me either. I jumped off the Mobil 1 ship back in the early 2000's after using it in our late 90's GM vehicles. The engines in both vehicles were noisy and used more oil while using it. I quit using it and have never tried it again.

I still own the 98 chevy truck that I used it in back then and currently run Phillip 66 shield in it and for years prior to that, Trop Artic, and the engine runs smooth and quiet on both.
 
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Me either. I jumped off the Mobil 1 ship back in the early 2000's after using it in our late 90's GM vehicles. The engines in both vehicles were noisy and used more oil while using it. I quit using it and have never tried it again.

I still own the 98 chevy truck that I used it in back then and currently run Phillip 66 shield in it and for years prior to that, Trop Artic, and the engine runs smooth and quiet on both.
You made the right move. I lost a mid-2000's Gen III 5.3L engine with vanilla Mobil-1 5W-30 in the sump for a few OCI's. I'm not saying that the noisy Mobil-1 caused the camshaft failure, but you likely know the old adage and song title, "once bitten, twice shy."

I've run either Valvoline Advanced, QSUD or QSFS, and Kirkland 5W-30 in it since. All is well, and they're very quiet in the replacement GM engine. Actually, I have some SN-rated Chevron Supreme 5W-30 in it this spring/summer, after finding a surprise case of 12 in the recesses of my shed a few months back. That was a sweet re-discovery. It's quiet as well. :)
 
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wtd

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You made the right move. I lost a mid-2000's Gen III 5.3L engine with vanilla Mobil-1 5W-30 in the sump for a few OCI's. I'm not saying that the noisy Mobil-1 caused the camshaft failure, but you likely know the old adage and song title, "once bitten, twice shy."

I've run either Valvoline Advanced, QSUD or QSFS, and Kirkland 5W-30 in it since. All is well, and they're very quiet in the replacement GM engine. Actually, I have some SN-rated Chevron Supreme 5W-30 in it this spring/summer, after finding a surprise case of 12 in the recesses of my shed a few months back. That was a sweet re-discovery. It's quiet as well. :)
Chevron Supreme is what I went to after moving on from the Mobil 1. Night and day difference with engine noise and oil usage. Both of our vehicles had pretty low mileage when I was using Mobil 1 so it wasn't like the engines were wore out.

I can't find Chevron Supreme around here anymore or I would probably still be using it.
 
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You made the right move. I lost a mid-2000's Gen III 5.3L engine with vanilla Mobil-1 5W-30 in the sump for a few OCI's. I'm not saying that the noisy Mobil-1 caused the camshaft failure, but you likely know the old adage and song title, "once bitten, twice shy."

I've run either Valvoline Advanced, QSUD or QSFS, and Kirkland 5W-30 in it since. All is well, and they're very quiet in the replacement GM engine. Actually, I have some SN-rated Chevron Supreme 5W-30 in it this spring/summer, after finding a surprise case of 12 in the recesses of my shed a few months back. That was a sweet re-discovery. It's quiet as well. :)
General observation, it always amazes me that in today’s world, with ever-tightening specs and ever-improving lubricant technologies, and in the face of millions of data points, we still have people who believe in tribological witchcraft and old wives’ tales. Are we going to now claim that the Hyundai Theta and Kia engine recalls are all because of oil failures as well? Or are we going to ascribe other engines’ longevities to a specific oil rather than good engineering and appropriate maintenance?

A handful of things will guarantee your best chance at longevity: use an oil that meets the mfr’s spec; use an oil filter at least as good as OEM; use an even better-filtering air filter; and change them at OEM mileage limits unless you are testing frequently to make sure all is well. If you’re doing these things and have a major mechanical failure, it’s much more likely it was due to poor engineering or poor machining rather than the oil.

LSs have long had a history of piston slap, broken DOD lifters, timing chain stretch, oil consumption, and other various cost-cutting measures that causes engines to fail prematurely. There are also lucky souls who manage to get several hundred K miles out of them without major issue. I’m most certainly not an M1 fan, but I wouldn’t use a single data point to ignore (your case) or pick (tig1’s case) a given oil. This used to be a board based on data, not emotions or hearsay. Those were the days.
 
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Bought lots of five qt jugs of both Castrol EP and M1 EP 5w30 when it got under the 28.xx price as I didn't know what was going to happen. Same on fram ultra as I got like 10 of them.
I have considered going to like HK or QS 5w30 full synthetic if it ever dropped to like 16.00 for a jug and would just change it a bit more often.
 
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General observation, it always amazes me that in today’s world, with ever-tightening specs and ever-improving lubricant technologies, and in the face of millions of data points, we still have people who believe in tribological witchcraft and old wives’ tales. Are we going to now claim that the Hyundai Theta and Kia engine recalls are all because of oil failures as well? Or are we going to ascribe other engines’ longevities to a specific oil rather than good engineering and appropriate maintenance?

A handful of things will guarantee your best chance at longevity: use an oil that meets the mfr’s spec; use an oil filter at least as good as OEM; use an even better-filtering air filter; and change them at OEM mileage limits unless you are testing frequently to make sure all is well. If you’re doing these things and have a major mechanical failure, it’s much more likely it was due to poor engineering or poor machining rather than the oil.

LSs have long had a history of piston slap, broken DOD lifters, timing chain stretch, oil consumption, and other various cost-cutting measures that causes engines to fail prematurely. There are also lucky souls who manage to get several hundred K miles out of them without major issue. I’m most certainly not an M1 fan, but I wouldn’t use a single data point to ignore (your case) or pick (tig1’s case) a given oil. This used to be a board based on data, not emotions or hearsay. Those were the days.
I'm an engineer and a technical manager today and logically understand your sentiment. Though, the one and only time I've had trouble with an LS engine was when I tried vanilla Mobil-1 5W-30 for several OCI's back then. And I'm not the only one whose had this same or very similar scenario play out for them. Therefore, my intuition and good sense comes into play ... "once bitten, twice shy."

By the way... among your list of LS maladies you forgot to mention so-called "soft" camshafts and their self-destruction. Outside of that list, I'll use your same logic to say that the vast majority of LS engines, especially their truck engines, are reliable beasts. Many, many reasonable references throughout the Inet attest to this fact. Come to think of it, I have around 300,000 miles on three LS engines. In extreme weather, few maladies have manifested themselves. The exception was the cam shaft self-destruction after 135,000 miles. One of the other two engines was involved in an accident that totaled the vehicle around 70,000 miles. The insurance company got that one.

As for Mobil-1 in general, I'm not a hater. Though, like you, I'm not a fan either. In the past, I have used their 0W-40 product with good results. Same goes for the Castrol blended viscosity. My son's 100,0000 mile, trouble-free Sportwagen loves the stuff.

Peace.
 
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Chevron Supreme is what I went to after moving on from the Mobil 1. Night and day difference with engine noise and oil usage. Both of our vehicles had pretty low mileage when I was using Mobil 1 so it wasn't like the engines were wore out.

I can't find Chevron Supreme around here anymore or I would probably still be using it.
I do like vertically-integrated Chevron oil. They make a point of hiring veterans. :)
 
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Chevron Supreme is what I went to after moving on from the Mobil 1. Night and day difference with engine noise and oil usage. Both of our vehicles had pretty low mileage when I was using Mobil 1 so it wasn't like the engines were wore out.

I can't find Chevron Supreme around here anymore or I would probably still be using it.
They have Chevron supreme on Walmart.com for $16 for 5 quart jug. I bought 12 of them several years ago
 
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No wonder the price has gone up it now an import Boutique oil

Valvoline now an import.jpg
 
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I'm an engineer and a technical manager today and logically understand your sentiment. Though, the one and only time I've had trouble with an LS engine was when I tried vanilla Mobil-1 5W-30 for several OCI's back then. And I'm not the only one whose had this same or very similar scenario play out for them. Therefore, my intuition and good sense comes into play ... "once bitten, twice shy."

By the way... among your list of LS maladies you forgot to mention so-called "soft" camshafts and their self-destruction. Outside of that list, I'll use your same logic to say that the vast majority of LS engines, especially their truck engines, are reliable beasts. Many, many reasonable references throughout the Inet attest to this fact. Come to think of it, I have around 300,000 miles on three LS engines. In extreme weather, few maladies have manifested themselves. The exception was the cam shaft self-destruction after 135,000 miles. One of the other two engines was involved in an accident that totaled the vehicle around 70,000 miles. The insurance company got that one.

As for Mobil-1 in general, I'm not a hater. Though, like you, I'm not a fan either. In the past, I have used their 0W-40 product with good results. Same goes for the Castrol blended viscosity. My son's 100,0000 mile, trouble-free Sportwagen loves the stuff.

Peace.
Agree with what you’ve said about the LS engines, and also add the SADI cores used on Hemi MDS which was a bonehead move as well. I’m definitely no materials engineer, but the idea of bouncing a hardened steel alloy on a ductile iron, surface hardened cam never made much sense.

Side note, wasn’t beating you up specifically. Just saying that many times oil is blamed for failures, when a forensic look at the real root cause will almost always reveal an engineering, machining, or maintenance issue. As much as we prefer or dislike brands, generally speaking, if it meets the engine specs the oil itself is very rarely the cause of the failure. Data at our plebe level is almost never enough nor the right type to truly point fingers at the oil.

It’s likely why Pennzoil offers a 500k engine warranty if you put PUP in, because the very minor risk that a failure was actually tied to the oil itself would be more than offset by all the profit they pocketed by you buying their top-tier oil and changing it at OEM intervals. Just a sanity check 😎 ☮️
 
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