OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I see your attempt at a tie-in here
And I'm not taking the bait. I think you'll figure out the nuance all on your own, if you haven't already.
M1 FS/EURO 0W-40 vs Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 - which would you run?
- Thread starter daveatthebill
- Start date
And I'm not taking the bait. I think you'll figure out the nuance all on your own, if you haven't already.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
True!Still, this is a way better discussion that some people have that want to run Rotella T6 5W-40 in everything.
100% correct
Mobil1 0w40 is tried and true. Don't know how such a cheap oil performs so well. My vetted buddies use it on track days. Running 280 oil temps lol
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I'm not sure how the discussion got off track, but I wanted to jump in and clarify why I started this thread in the first place!
This was meant to be a comparison between two MB 229.5 oils.
My engine is a 2019 Mercedes M176 — a twin-turbo V8. The owner’s manual specifies MB 229.52 or 229.61, but after doing some deeper research, I found that these specs are mainly recommended because certain variants of this engine come equipped with a Gasoline Particulate Filter (GPF). As others have pointed out, MB 229.52 is typically intended for engines with particulate filters and shares characteristics with diesel oil formulations. It’s also primarily available in xW-30 grades — while xW-40 oils do exist under this spec, they're less common and usually more expensive.
I opted to run a 229.5 oil instead. It’s easier to find, more affordable, and is generally available in xW-40, which I believe is a better fit for high-performance V8s like the M176. I know I can run a 229.52 oil and could probably find one at a similar price to the ones mentioned above, but I don’t want to — my car has almost always been on xW-40, so why go thinner now?
I also reached out to a few Mercedes dealers where I’ve had my car serviced. I didn’t specifically ask whether my vehicle has a GPF, but they did pull my VIN and confirmed that every oil change was done using an xW-40 oil. They mentioned that for V8s and AMG models, they typically default to xW-40 — often under the 229.5 spec — because it’s better suited for performance and longevity in these engines.
Ultimately, I started this thread to compare Mobil 1 Euro/FS 0W-40 and Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 — both 229.5 oils. I initially expected Mobil 1 to be more highly regarded based on previous forum hype, but many members here have shared great insights suggesting that PPE 5W-40 might actually be the stronger, more robust choice — even if the difference is marginal.
Thanks for all the contributions so far. It has been a really informative discussion!
***Disclaimer***
All of the information I’ve shared here is based on my own research and conversations with dealerships. I’m not an expert or certified mechanic — just an enthusiast trying to make informed decisions. If I’ve misstated anything or shared incorrect info, please feel free to correct me. I’m always open to learning more.
This was meant to be a comparison between two MB 229.5 oils.
My engine is a 2019 Mercedes M176 — a twin-turbo V8. The owner’s manual specifies MB 229.52 or 229.61, but after doing some deeper research, I found that these specs are mainly recommended because certain variants of this engine come equipped with a Gasoline Particulate Filter (GPF). As others have pointed out, MB 229.52 is typically intended for engines with particulate filters and shares characteristics with diesel oil formulations. It’s also primarily available in xW-30 grades — while xW-40 oils do exist under this spec, they're less common and usually more expensive.
I opted to run a 229.5 oil instead. It’s easier to find, more affordable, and is generally available in xW-40, which I believe is a better fit for high-performance V8s like the M176. I know I can run a 229.52 oil and could probably find one at a similar price to the ones mentioned above, but I don’t want to — my car has almost always been on xW-40, so why go thinner now?
I also reached out to a few Mercedes dealers where I’ve had my car serviced. I didn’t specifically ask whether my vehicle has a GPF, but they did pull my VIN and confirmed that every oil change was done using an xW-40 oil. They mentioned that for V8s and AMG models, they typically default to xW-40 — often under the 229.5 spec — because it’s better suited for performance and longevity in these engines.
Ultimately, I started this thread to compare Mobil 1 Euro/FS 0W-40 and Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 — both 229.5 oils. I initially expected Mobil 1 to be more highly regarded based on previous forum hype, but many members here have shared great insights suggesting that PPE 5W-40 might actually be the stronger, more robust choice — even if the difference is marginal.
Thanks for all the contributions so far. It has been a really informative discussion!
***Disclaimer***
All of the information I’ve shared here is based on my own research and conversations with dealerships. I’m not an expert or certified mechanic — just an enthusiast trying to make informed decisions. If I’ve misstated anything or shared incorrect info, please feel free to correct me. I’m always open to learning more.
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Nice find!
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Well, since it actually spec's 229.52, if you can find M1 ESP X4 0W-40, that's the oil I'd use, because it's the "right" oil for the application. However, my understanding, like others have noted, is that it can be difficult to come by.
That said, if we look at the Mercedes table, that engine (M176) spec'd 229.5 right up to and including 2018, with the change to 229.52 in 2019, I assume, as you noted, due to the fitment of a GPF on it in Europe. As the spider chart @lakestone posted from Lubrizol shows, aftertreatment (GPF/DPF) compatibility is a focus area for 229.52, so that makes sense.
Since you've said you do not have a GPF, using the oil that was spec'd in 2018 for the same engine isn't really a risk.
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I just noticed this—you're absolutely right. My original post was specifically about 229.5; I never mentioned 229.52. I believe the other poster was suggesting that 229.52 could be used interchangeably with 229.5, but I think that’s incorrect, and it seems you've already clarified that (You as in Overkill)If the vehicle spec's a 229.52 oil, then he should use X4. My contention isn't with the use of X4, it was your recommendation that 229.52 be used where 229.5 is specified, when they are different specs with different focuses.
The 229.5 recommendations were based on him indicating 229.5 in the OP, as well as listing two oils with that specification. It is certainly possible that he's wrong, but that doesn't change anything about our discussion about 229.5 and 229.52 interchangeability
Apologies for not including my engine details in the original post. I intentionally left them out because I wanted to avoid any discussion around 229.52, as I have no intention of using it.
That said, based on my understanding, I agree with everything you've shared in this thread Overkill. Thanks for the clarification.
Nice find, eh? Pfft, he had that ready since 2006, just itching to show it off!
I didn't say interchangeably. I said you could use 229.52 for engines that specify 229.5, but not the other way around.
If you want a good 229.52 motor oil, there are still two good options, both with a NOACK ~8.5: Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 and Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30. The 0W-30 is a PAO+GTL+POE blend, while the 5W-30 is a different formulation, mostly Group III, and with a bare minimum ester content (Mobil wanted LL04 for this one). And when I say bare minimum, I mean Borate-Ester type minimum. But they are both great oils.
I would check if your engine has a GPF, and not use a full SAPS oil if it has one. I wouldn't assume, I would check. 5W-40 oil is not exactly a necessity in that engine, especially since the ESP 0W-30 and 5W-40 have a 3.5 HTHS and are way more shear stable than Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, which turns into a 0W-30 with a HTHS of 3.3~3.4 pretty fast, while the ESP 0W-30 and 5W-30 stay in grade. On oil-club.ru they shear tested ESP 5W-30 and it didn't shear. I'm to sleepy to look for the link, but everyone has google, so happy googling.
Lastly: It's always refreshing when someone with a nice and expensive automobile is looking to make a sensible and informed lubricant purchase decision. I see this on forums all the time, like Porsche owners who use Delvac gear oil and HD transmission fluid because it's some of the best and most durable, while being also cheap. Meanwhile, you see someone with a KIA with an asthmatic four-cylinder engine - which is hanging on for dear life - and they're wondering if AMSOIL is good enough for 2.4L self-grinding mill, or they should get Red Line, or whatever has their magic and imaginary oil formulation is - as in - "it's a true synthetic because it's all PAO" or "man, it's gotta be all Group IV and V, I know my oils, man!". Some people are weird, but one thing is for sure: no "magic oil" can save those engine and their badly manufactured crank pins.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Ok, you engine takes MB229.52. That is not due to GPF as is due to introduction of ultra low sulfur gas (ULSG) on North American market starting in 2017.
Remember, it is not about grade, it is about HTHS. Rule is: as thin as possible as thick as necessary.
Personally, I would go Motomaster Euro 0W30 which is repackaged PPE 0W30 LX. Or PPE LX if on sale at CT.
Excellent explanation, with one suggestion: Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 - if it can easily and reasonably be found in Canada. I know how good Euro LX 0W-30 is, but the Mobil 1 is about a decade newer formulation, full of newer detergent, dispersant, and antioxidant technologies. If you ever used it, you noticed the pungent smell and the dark-smokey color. These come from the co-bases and antioxidants mostly. It's good stuff. The anti-wear package in Euro LX 0W-30 runs primarily off Borate-Ester - starting out at ~500ppm, it's one of the numbers you have to watch if you're doing UOAs because it progressively goes down until there's nothing left.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
ESP 0W30 is also older formulation, unlike ESP 5W30.
Both are excellent oils and I personally never used LX (I did extensively ESP 0W30). Both are MB229.52 and both are approved for latest MB229.52 update.
The reason why I mentioned Motomaster is price. I am not sure about ESP price in Canada. But I too would go ESP if price is equal.
M1 ESP 0W-30 comes on sale all the time. Right now it is $43.99 for five quarts.
Pennzoil Euro LX 0W-30 is on sale as well $42.99 for five liters. Buy two jugs (10L) and get $20 rebate from Pennzoil.
MotoMaster Euro 0W-30 is $52.99 regular price. Comes on sale quite often for under $40.
Pennzoil Euro LX 0W-30 is on sale as well $42.99 for five liters. Buy two jugs (10L) and get $20 rebate from Pennzoil.
MotoMaster Euro 0W-30 is $52.99 regular price. Comes on sale quite often for under $40.
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Nice find, eh? Pfft, he had that ready since 2006, just itching to show it off!
I didn't say interchangeably. I said you could use 229.52 for engines that specify 229.5, but not the other way around.
If you want a good 229.52 motor oil, there are still two good options, both with a NOACK ~8.5: Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 and Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30. The 0W-30 is a PAO+GTL+POE blend, while the 5W-30 is a different formulation, mostly Group III, and with a bare minimum ester content (Mobil wanted LL04 for this one). And when I say bare minimum, I mean Borate-Ester type minimum. But they are both great oils.
I would check if your engine has a GPF, and not use a full SAPS oil if it has one. I wouldn't assume, I would check. 5W-40 oil is not exactly a necessity in that engine, especially since the ESP 0W-30 and 5W-40 have a 3.5 HTHS and are way more shear stable than Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, which turns into a 0W-30 with a HTHS of 3.3~3.4 pretty fast, while the ESP 0W-30 and 5W-30 stay in grade. On oil-club.ru they shear tested ESP 5W-30 and it didn't shear. I'm to sleepy to look for the link, but everyone has google, so happy googling.
Lastly: It's always refreshing when someone with a nice and expensive automobile is looking to make a sensible and informed lubricant purchase decision. I see this on forums all the time, like Porsche owners who use Delvac gear oil and HD transmission fluid because it's some of the best and most durable, while being also cheap. Meanwhile, you see someone with a KIA with an asthmatic four-cylinder engine - which is hanging on for dear life - and they're wondering if AMSOIL is good enough for 2.4L self-grinding mill, or they should get Red Line, or whatever has their magic and imaginary oil formulation is - as in - "it's a true synthetic because it's all PAO" or "man, it's gotta be all Group IV and V, I know my oils, man!". Some people are weird, but one thing is for sure: no "magic oil" can save those engine and their badly manufactured crank pins.
Thank you kindly for the information. As it turns out, ESP 0W-30 is actually on sale where I am—available for around $43 CAD—so that's definitely something to consider. I appreciate the point about shear stability; it makes sense, and with that in mind, perhaps M1 0W-40 may not be necessary given its tendency to shear.
That said, I’d still be interested to hear if anyone has seen updated data or used oil analysis results from 2024 or 2025 in case any reformulations have impacted its performance.
I do like the idea of going with something more shear-stable, though I’ll admit it’s a bit hard to fully commit when I see so many others using 0W-40 for racing or track use. I don’t track my car, but seeing that does give me a bit of reassurance.
The supposed shear instability of Mobil 1 0W-40 is largely overblown. It may have had an issue at one time in the past but recent tests posted on here haven’t shown that tendency. Besides, shearing of the VM in an oil is highly engine dependent and few engines have a problem with this. Most viscosity deviations we see on here are due to fuel dilution. The oil is passing the stay-in-grade requirement for the approval.
And as for “updated data” or UOA showing anything that impacts performance, neither one of those will show anything of the sort. UOA are full of uncontrolled variables which aren’t related to the oil’s “performance”, however that is defined. Neither will a PDS of typical values. What shows performance is the approvals the oil holds and here you’re still using an oil with a proper approval.
ESP 0w30 voa from April 2025 thanks to @DuckRyder! Formula remains unchanged(my personal favorite). High virgin oxidation due to ester formula unlike ESP 5w30 which uses a new formula.
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Thank you for the information. I don't mean to come across as argumentative, but I had a question regarding the ULSG (Ultra-Low Sulfur Gasoline) in North America. Wouldn't the presence of ULSG effectively make the MB 229.5 specification redundant?
From what I understand, most modern AMG engines use the M177 platform, and as far as I know, they are still running on 229.5-approved oils. My local dealers also mentioned that xW-40 viscosities are typically used in AMG or other V8 engines. If ULSG is indeed a factor, wouldn't these engines have already transitioned to newer specs like 229.52 or something more recent?
Regarding 229.52, I've noticed that many of the approved oils are currently on sale, including Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30. Unless I’m mistaken, wouldn’t M1 ESP 0W-30 be considered one of the best options within that spec?
Finally we agree on something.
Mobil wanted the LL04 approval for ESP 5W-30, so oxidation has to be kept as low as possible.
It's not shear unstable, it's by design. Mobil chose the VII type to use in this oil. More than likely it was engineered with some fuel economy gains in mind. Look up the LSJ video filmed at the HPL lab where they did a KRL20 on the latest formulation of M1 FS 0W-40. Pretty good stuff.
You are very welcome. The ESP 0W-30 formulation stays unchanged.
From April 10, 2025:
It has everything you'd want but ANs. Since the tri-syn days, Mobil rarely blends anything with both at the same time (like Delvac 1 5W-40 for example).
Guys, we really need to start a "collection" or a "donation", or a "fund", and buy one if these so we can be cool like our Russian brethren from oil-club.ru:
Nice find, eh? Pfft, he had that ready since 2006, just itching to show it off!
I didn't say interchangeably. I said you could use 229.52 for engines that specify 229.5, but not the other way around.
If you want a good 229.52 motor oil, there are still two good options, both with a NOACK ~8.5: Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 and Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30. The 0W-30 is a PAO+GTL+POE blend, while the 5W-30 is a different formulation, mostly Group III, and with a bare minimum ester content (Mobil wanted LL04 for this one). And when I say bare minimum, I mean Borate-Ester type minimum. But they are both great oils.
I would check if your engine has a GPF, and not use a full SAPS oil if it has one. I wouldn't assume, I would check. 5W-40 oil is not exactly a necessity in that engine, especially since the ESP 0W-30 and 5W-40 have a 3.5 HTHS and are way more shear stable than Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, which turns into a 0W-30 with a HTHS of 3.3~3.4 pretty fast, while the ESP 0W-30 and 5W-30 stay in grade. On oil-club.ru they shear tested ESP 5W-30 and it didn't shear. I'm to sleepy to look for the link, but everyone has google, so happy googling.
Lastly: It's always refreshing when someone with a nice and expensive automobile is looking to make a sensible and informed lubricant purchase decision. I see this on forums all the time, like Porsche owners who use Delvac gear oil and HD transmission fluid because it's some of the best and most durable, while being also cheap. Meanwhile, you see someone with a KIA with an asthmatic four-cylinder engine - which is hanging on for dear life - and they're wondering if AMSOIL is good enough for 2.4L self-grinding mill, or they should get Red Line, or whatever has their magic and imaginary oil formulation is - as in - "it's a true synthetic because it's all PAO" or "man, it's gotta be all Group IV and V, I know my oils, man!". Some people are weird, but one thing is for sure: no "magic oil" can save those engine and their badly manufactured crank pins.
