M1 FS/EURO 0W-40 vs Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 - which would you run?

[edyvw]

What would be your pick between the three if Motul 8100 X-Cess Gen 2 5W40 could be had for the same price?

PPE. I mean i did UOA through SOPUS to compare PPE 5W40 and Motul GEN2, both utilized on track, both returned pretty much same results after 5k. I posted somewhere in UOA section. I will repost here but I am in some dump in the middle of Utah and internet is slow.

 

[daveatthebill]

No. Approvals require minimum 3.5cP. Max in MB229.5 is 4.1cP (I think).
PPE is around 3.8-3.9. M1 probably 3.7-3.8.
PPE bcs. it utilizes more GTL has lower Noack and higher HTHS. Take into consideration that this is finding needle in the haystack. However, I trust M1 more to pack whatever they promise they will pack.

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I understand now — the specs are quite similar overall. PPE might have a slight edge in terms of performance, but both options are already strong, so either would be a solid, safe choice.

 

[KevinMalone]

In Canada? Can't beat PP Euro when on sale at CT or Parts Source with the mail in rebates.

 

[edyvw]

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I understand now — the specs are quite similar overall. PPE might have a slight edge in terms of performance, but both options are already strong, so either would be a solid, safe choice.

I mean, those are all top tier off the shelf oils (except Motul). You can’t go wrong.

 

[lakestone]

No it doesn’t!
MB229.5 is High-SAPS oil
MB229.52 is Low-SAPS oil.

You can use MB 229.52 approved motor oil in applications that recommend MB 229.5. However, you cannot use MB 229.5 approved motor oil in MB 229.52 applications. Do you know and understand why that is?

 

[siriusc1024]

I also wanted to add that I went to Walmart and also saw Supertech Euro 5W40 with 229.5 Spec for only 28.88 CAD. Technically based on approval's I could also run that but would rather have the peace of mind of running M1 or Pennzoil.

Lastly, I did not know Walmart Canada also stocked the M1 0W-40 for $36 CAD. The website did not label it nicely so I was not expecting it. They also had the PP 5W40 for $39.99 CAD

Double check the label on that supertech euro. It's SN not SP, if that means anything to you.

 

[OVERKILL]

You can use MB 229.52 approved motor oil in applications that recommend MB 229.5. However, you cannot use MB 229.5 approved motor oil in MB 229.52 applications. Do you know and understand why that is?

Well, 229.52 is primarily a diesel specification that's based on ACEA C3, while 229.5 is primarily a petrol specification based on A3/B4.

And what you've stated isn't accurate, at least according to Mercedes:

 

[siriusc1024]

Well, 229.52 is primarily a diesel specification that's based on ACEA C3, while 229.5 is primarily a petrol specification based on A3/B4.

And what you've stated isn't accurate, at least according to Mercedes:
View attachment 280509

There you go

 

[lakestone]

Well, 229.52 is primarily a diesel specification that's based on ACEA C3, while 229.5 is primarily a petrol specification based on A3/B4.

And what you've stated isn't accurate, at least according to Mercedes:
View attachment 280509

And which engine does the OP have?

 

[OVERKILL]

And which engine does the OP have?

Do you see any gasoline applications in that table that spec both 229.5 and 229.52?

 

[siriusc1024]

And which engine does the OP have?

Very good question. That's something that should have been established before recommending a certain oil.

 

[OVERKILL]

Double check the label on that supertech euro. It's SN not SP, if that means anything to you.

It's also not on the approval list:
https://operatingfluids.mercedes-benz.com/sheet/229.5

 

[lakestone]

MB 229.52 can be used in gasoline engines.

Mobil 1 ESP X4 0W-40 is modern formulation technology compared to other full SAPS oils that have been only tweaked over the past two decades. And no, Mobil 1 ESP X4 0W-40 does not have a MB 229.5 approval, and I don't know why Mobil would seek one since they already make products that have that approval. My point was that this is a superior product.

 

[OVERKILL]

Very good question. That's something that should have been established before recommending a certain oil.

I think everybody is operating under the premise that it's an engine that spec's 229.5, since that's the spec he called out in the OP.

 

[OVERKILL]

View attachment 280510

MB 229.52 can be used in gasoline engines.

That's obvious, given it's listed beside several gasoline engines in the table I posted from Mercedes.

But that wasn't your claim. You stated it could be used where 229.5 was spec'd, but that does not appear to be the case, at least according to the Mercedes 223.2 specification table, so I'm interested in where you heard that or what prompted you to make that statement.

Mobil 1 ESP X4 0W-40 is modern formulation technology compared to other full SAPS oils that have been only tweaked over the past two decades. And no, Mobil 1 ESP X4 0W-40 does not have a MB 229.5 approval, and I don't know why Mobil would seek one since they already make products that have that approval. My point was that this is a superior product.

ESP X4 isn't a full-SAPS oil, it's mid-SAPS. It wouldn't be eligible for 229.5 anyway, because it's based on C3, rather than A3/B4:

And I don't think the Lubrizol chart shows it being superior, unless your concerns are specifically aftertreatment compatibility, and oxidative thickening, which we don't see a whole heck of a lot of.

The approval sequences for both 229.5 and 229.52 have some differences, mostly due to the C3 vs A3/B4 thing. For example, 229.5 requires a heavier load carrying capacity of 150 vs 100 for 229.52, and 60 for aged oil, while there is no requirement for aged oil under 229.52. 229.5 has oxidation capped at 25 A/cm, while 229.52 is 20.

229.52 uses the OM651 and OM642 engine tests, while 229.5 uses M271 and M272 (FE in W204). 229.5 has to pas VW T4 (all tests from VW 502.00) while 229.52 doesn't.

 

[siriusc1024]

I think everybody is operating under the premise that it's an engine that spec's 229.5, since that's the spec he called out in the OP.

Everybody? Why the argument about approvals?

 

[lakestone]

I think everybody is operating under the premise that it's an engine that spec's 229.5, since that's the spec he called out in the OP.

I think you're not going to rest until you're right. Maybe give the OP a chance to tell us a little bit more about their vehicle, eh?

 

[BornSlippy]

Point is moot anyway. That M1 ESP X4 is nearly impossible to find in Canada for any sane price.

 

[OVERKILL]

I think you're not going to rest until you're right. Maybe give the OP a chance to tell us a little bit more about their vehicle, eh?

If the vehicle spec's a 229.52 oil, then he should use X4. My contention isn't with the use of X4, it was your recommendation that 229.52 be used where 229.5 is specified, when they are different specs with different focuses.

The 229.5 recommendations were based on him indicating 229.5 in the OP, as well as listing two oils with that specification. It is certainly possible that he's wrong, but that doesn't change anything about our discussion about 229.5 and 229.52 interchangeability

 

[lakestone]

Point is moot anyway. That M1 ESP X4 is nearly impossible to find in Canada for any sane price.

It's not easy to find down here either. Sometimes Autozone has it. I'm thinking that it's expensive to make and Mobil tries to keep the price per quart (I can only buy it in quarts) somewhat in line with their other offerings. Anyway, it's darn good oil, that's for sure. PP Euro 5W-40 or Quaker 5W-40 are very good options if the price is saner up in Canada. Everything is so super expensive. It was a fun intellectual exercise though.