LSJr video about vis, wear, viscosity, etc

[ZeeOSix]

What footnote in the manual tells us that thinner oil is better for the grandma duty cycle, and how is 0w not satisfying said requirement?

You can't even get sarcasm, lol. Apparently you don't underhand the W rating either.

Because for most cars on the street, they're being fed whatever grade is on the cap by jiffy tech and we don't really hear of failure rates that indicate ragged edge operation. So it appears 1) headroom does exist and 2) I do grasp the logic, and yet my purchasing choices are indicated in my signature.

A 2GR-FE fed 0w-20 per backspec (my cap says 5w-30) will still run when roaches roam the earth, despite whatever front cover leaks it may have.

I'll list my stash on marketplace tonight and start to stock up on 15w-50.

You don't know how much MOFT headroom the recommended viscosity on the cap really gives - many wear studies show xW-20 is pretty much on the edge of enough HTHS to give adequate full time protection under all use conditions - Ford apparently gave in to CAFE and did what was best. Going up a grade from xW-20 will indeed add some headroom. That's the main point of doing so. You do you ... and you might want to stop your obvious trolling.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

The standard around here is if the engine still runs "good" and doesn't blow-up, then everything they use in/on it (oil, oil filter, air filter) must be fantastic and no extra wear is taking place because oil is oil and filters are filters, lol.

I don’t think that’s the standard here at all. I think it’s quite the opposite actually where there’s paranoia here about MOFT that 99% of the public doesn’t even know about, and their engines make it to the junkyard someday after the car rots out with cam lobes intact just fine. The “real world” thinks that oil and oil and filters are filters. BITOG is the outlier.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I don’t think that’s the standard here at all. I think it’s quite the opposite actually where there’s paranoia here about MOFT that 99% of the public doesn’t even know about, and their engines make it to the junkyard someday after the car rots out with cam lobes intact just fine. The “real world” thinks that oil and oil and filters are filters. BITOG is the outlier.

There are plenty of members here who think oil is oil and filters are filters and whatever you use doesn't make any difference. And if the engine still "runs good" then they must be doing something right. And yes, then there's the "it's going to rust out" or "it's going to get wrecked" anyway crowd, lol.

 

[OVERKILL]

Old is relative. The 6.4 is old at 150k miles. A 7.3 isn't old at 2x or 3x that.

A 6.4L PSD is old at 20,000 miles

Anecdote, but we had a small fleet of peak lifter failure era trucks (2011/2012) and we lost basically all of them to lifter failure at around 200,000 miles. Engines were totally healthy otherwise. Pre-VCT HEMI's weren't known for longevity issues, I just hopped on Autotrader and there are a pile with high mileage, like this one:

That's 265,000 miles. I'm surprised that the body is still decent, rust was always the biggest killer of them up here.

I'm only pushing back because you said they had "mechanical design issues", which they don't. They did suffer the same lifter failure issues that all of the current pushrod engines have, which is likely a supplier issue, but that's about it. Yes, they are loud, but that's again not a defect, just a characteristic of the valvetrain design.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

There are plenty of members here who think oil is oil and filters are filters and whatever you use doesn't make any difference. And if the engine still "runs good" then they must be doing something right. And yes, then there's the "it's going to rust out" or "it's going to get wrecked" anyway crowd, lol.

I know there are plenty here who say that, I’ve been here for many years. You said it’s “the standard” though.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I know there are plenty here who say that, I’ve been here for many years. You said it’s “the standard” though.

The standard for those who don't really understand engine wear and what the causes are.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

The standard for those who don't really understand engine wear and what the causes are.

That is a massive generalization. For somebody who has a port-injected engine that’s easy on oil and drives consistent highway commutes, what more would they need to “understand”? In many cases, grabbing Supertech oil in whatever grade their oil cap says and filters off the shelf at Walmart and changing at OEM recommended intervals is totally fine. Not everybody here is driving while worrying about fuel dilution or other negative oil related circumstances, nor does everybody need to.

 

[ZeeOSix]

That is a massive generalization. For somebody who has a port-injected engine that’s easy on oil and drives consistent highway commutes, what more would they need to “understand”? In many cases, grabbing Supertech oil and filters off the shelf at Walmart and changing at OEM recommended intervals is totally fine. Not everybody here is driving while worrying about fuel dilution or other negative oil related circumstances, nor does everybody need to.

It's how some view oil and filters, regardless if you think it's a "generalization" or not. They don't really dig into how a difference in them can impact engine wear. And yes, OCI length based on use conditions and the oil & filter used for the OCI is a factor - many factors involved. People are generally happy as long as the engine is "running good" ... which is fine since it's their engine. You went up a grade in your stuff, so there must be a reason for that.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

It's how some view oil and filters, regardless if you think it's a "generalization" or not. They don't really dig into how a difference in them can impact engine wear. And yes, OCI length based on use conditions and the oil & filter used for the OCI is a factor - many factors involved. People are generally happy as long as the engine is "running good" ... which is fine since it's their engine. You went up a grade in your stuff, so there must be a reason for that.

Are you talking about BITOG members or the general public?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Are you talking about BITOG members or the general public?

Both ... you even said this in post 45.
"I know there are plenty here who say that, I’ve been here for many years."

As mentioned, the general public knows pretty much very little about oil and filters.

 

[ZeeOSix]

You’re talking to somebody who went up a grade in both of their cars.

Why did you make that decision?

 

[kschachn]

I’m not even pushing back. You’re talking to somebody who went up a grade in both of their cars. But there’s nuance to it, and that’s my whole point.

What’s the nuance?

 

[kschachn]

Ironically, that was kinda LSJr's point: once you have sufficient (and perhaps a little extra) viscosity, chemistry is more important than gaining more.

But maybe I'm just oblivious because exactly zero of the three engines sitting in my driveway are known for lubricant related, hard part wear failures. Or fuel dilution. Or shearing down oil. I can't think of a single car in my life where I was paranoid of such. But if I had a 6.4 hemi or 6.2 gm (for example) and was searching for band-aids for poor mechanical design I might have other life goals. It's just not high on my lost-sleep 8D causal factors list.

I did snap a rod on a snapper riding mower that one time though after it sized the rod bearing. Maybe I should re-evaluate my position.

Which isn’t technically true, wear always decreases with increasing HT/HS. It’s not linear and after 3.5 or so it’s rather minimal, but the notion that there’s a “sweet spot” really only applies in relation to fuel economy. If that’s not your concern then I’m still not seeing this sweet spot for wear.

 

[johnmyster]

I'm only pushing back because you said they had "mechanical design issues", which they don't. They did suffer the same lifter failure issues that all of the current pushrod engines have, which is likely a supplier issue, but that's about it.

I've never had a motor with lifter failure so when I hear about it, I guess I consider that a problem with the hardware. If that makes me wrong, I don't want to be right.

 

[johnmyster]

Which isn’t technically true, wear always decreases with increasing HT/HS. It’s not linear and after 3.5 or so it’s rather minimal, but the notion that there’s a “sweet spot” really only applies in relation to fuel economy. If that’s not your concern then I’m still not seeing this sweet spot for wear.

I guess if you want the highest possible HTHS then you need to choose weather to sacrifice cold flow (low spread) or volatility/shear stablity (high spread) and maybe price/availability. So not just fuel economy.

So I guess that puts you in the camp that prioritizes HTHS. (Straight 50 weight all the things?) Maybe other people that make or own cars care about those other things too.

Surprised my Mazda is staying togeter with Dexos 1 SP 5w-30 swill.

 

[ltslimjim]

The standard around here is if the engine still runs "good" and doesn't blow-up, then everything they use in/on it (oil, oil filter, air filter) must be fantastic and no extra wear is taking place because oil is oil and filters are filters, lol.

It’s the classic “since I don’t see the evidence it must not exist.”

That’s like saying since I don’t see masses of cars dead on the road:

1) They must all last the same amount of miles and years no questions asked! Quality is equal you can’t know it!

2) So, just buy any car!

 

[ZeeOSix]

HTHS has nothing to do with the W grade. Use the correct W grade for the cold starting conditions, and use an adequate HTHS for the hot operating use conditions. More HTHS viscosity will always result in less wear because it results in more MOFT, all other factors held constant.

 

[ZeeOSix]

It’s the classic “since I don’t see the evidence it must not exist.”

Even the flat earth group that took a trip to the South Pole still didn't believe what they saw, lol.

 

[cptbarkey]

I have been a long time vocal critic of him, this video was a good watch and he was clearly making an effort to educate and speak clearly and concisely. It’s almost as if he stuck to an outline instead of meandering brain farts. I will watch more as he produces more content.

 

[CleanSump]

Even the flat earth group that took a trip to the South Pole still didn't believe what they saw, lol.

Just because you see it doesn't make it real. Everything looks rounded because your eyes are round and that's just how it appears.
MB 229.52: HTHS + Fuel Economy tested.