LSJR Calls Out YouTube AI-generated Video Referencing Him

[garageman402]

I watched the video, read the 160 posts here (!), then watched video again. The 3 points he is challenging in the AI video are:

(1) "The same engine in other countries run 5w-30 instead of the 0w-20 specified here." That is true

(2) The video claimed "0w-20 sheared FASTER than 5w-30", that is the claim he is contesting. He showed the shear rate of all the used oil analysis he's seen & a higher percentage of 5w-30 was "out of grade" than 0w-20, but then, this doesn't take into account which engines were using either grade. We don't know how many 5w-30 samples were not so good oils vs. how many 0w-20 were "good" oils.

(3) "5w-30 produced 40% less wear than 0w-20." He says we don't know the brand of oil & whether the engine was still in break-in when those samples were taken. Break in lasting for 20K or so, the wear numbers will be higher than in engines with 50k or so. Then he goes back into the shearing speech.

Interestingly, 0w-X had a better shear rate than 5w-X. I'm thinking the 10w60 that had the 95%+ shear rate was Liqui Moly, skewing that brand's numbers.

This shows that when 0w-20 stayed in grade the wear numbers were comparable to Xw-30, but when sheared the numbers were higher for Xw-20

I think the point is a sheared 30 oil will be on par with an unsheared 20, so theoretically a 30 will give better or similar wear protection than a 20 even if the 30 shears & the 20 does not.

The only way to really know is "get it analyzed", which is what he is selling. He has also said "100% synthetic" & "full synthetic" mean the same, pure marketing. The only way to tell is...... yep, get it analyzed.

I still want to know the basis for his oil filter statement that everyone is on about. Once again, we have to wait for the next video, much like waiting for the next season of Dallas to see why Bobby Ewing isn't dead.......

 

[Nessism1]

I watched the video, read the 160 posts here (!), then watched video again. The 3 points he is challenging in the AI video are:

(1) "The same engine in other countries run 5w-30 instead of the 0w-20 specified here." That is true

(2) The video claimed "0w-20 sheared FASTER than 5w-30", that is the claim he is contesting. He showed the shear rate of all the used oil analysis he's seen & a higher percentage of 5w-30 was "out of grade" than 0w-20, but then, this doesn't take into account which engines were using either grade. We don't know how many 5w-30 samples were not so good oils vs. how many 0w-20 were "good" oils.

View attachment 318503

(3) "5w-30 produced 40% less wear than 0w-20." He says we don't know the brand of oil & whether the engine was still in break-in when those samples were taken. Break in lasting for 20K or so, the wear numbers will be higher than in engines with 50k or so. Then he goes back into the shearing speech.

View attachment 318496
View attachment 318500
View attachment 318501

Interestingly, 0w-X had a better shear rate than 5w-X. I'm thinking the 10w60 that had the 95%+ shear rate was Liqui Moly, skewing that brand's numbers.

This shows that when 0w-20 stayed in grade the wear numbers were comparable to Xw-30, but when sheared the numbers were higher for Xw-20

View attachment 318498

I think the point is a sheared 30 oil will be on par with an unsheared 20, so theoretically a 30 will give better or similar wear protection than a 20 even if the 30 shears & the 20 does not.

The only way to really know is "get it analyzed", which is what he is selling. He has also said "100% synthetic" & "full synthetic" mean the same, pure marketing. The only way to tell is...... yep, get it analyzed.

I still want to know the basis for his oil filter statement that everyone is on about. Once again, we have to wait for the next video, much like waiting for the next season of Dallas to see why Bobby Ewing isn't dead.......

Nice summary. The question I'd like to know is why do LSJ's videos put so many BITOG dudes panties in a twist?

 

[garageman402]

Nice summary. The question I'd like to know is why do LSJ's videos put so many BITOG dudes panties in a twist?

Probably the same reason everyone got their panties in a twist when Galileo said the Earth was not the center of the universe...

 

[kschachn]

Nice summary. The question I'd like to know is why do LSJ's videos put so many BITOG dudes panties in a twist?

For some it is because they are somehow incapable of discerning technical information for truth and error, and as a result are buying what they hear from an Internet influencer as wholly accurate. Or dismiss those who provide technical arguments against at least part of what is being said as “haters”. This does seem to be a common theme for those who cannot or will not understand what’s being posted here.

 

[OVERKILL]

I watched the video, read the 160 posts here (!), then watched video again. The 3 points he is challenging in the AI video are:

(1) "The same engine in other countries run 5w-30 instead of the 0w-20 specified here." That is true

(2) The video claimed "0w-20 sheared FASTER than 5w-30", that is the claim he is contesting. He showed the shear rate of all the used oil analysis he's seen & a higher percentage of 5w-30 was "out of grade" than 0w-20, but then, this doesn't take into account which engines were using either grade. We don't know how many 5w-30 samples were not so good oils vs. how many 0w-20 were "good" oils.

View attachment 318503

(3) "5w-30 produced 40% less wear than 0w-20." He says we don't know the brand of oil & whether the engine was still in break-in when those samples were taken. Break in lasting for 20K or so, the wear numbers will be higher than in engines with 50k or so. Then he goes back into the shearing speech.

View attachment 318496
View attachment 318500
View attachment 318501

Interestingly, 0w-X had a better shear rate than 5w-X. I'm thinking the 10w60 that had the 95%+ shear rate was Liqui Moly, skewing that brand's numbers.

This shows that when 0w-20 stayed in grade the wear numbers were comparable to Xw-30, but when sheared the numbers were higher for Xw-20

View attachment 318498

I think the point is a sheared 30 oil will be on par with an unsheared 20, so theoretically a 30 will give better or similar wear protection than a 20 even if the 30 shears & the 20 does not.

The only way to really know is "get it analyzed", which is what he is selling. He has also said "100% synthetic" & "full synthetic" mean the same, pure marketing. The only way to tell is...... yep, get it analyzed.

I still want to know the basis for his oil filter statement that everyone is on about. Once again, we have to wait for the next video, much like waiting for the next season of Dallas to see why Bobby Ewing isn't dead.......

I'm not seeing anything mentioning fuel dilution, was that covered? I ask because it would be unusual for a 0W-8 to shear, given it would have little to no VII polymer in it, but applications that spec 0W-8, 0W-12 and 0W-16 are by and large GDI or TGDI, which more often than not, fuel dilute.

Fuel is also a horrible lubricant, so that's relevant to the "wear" graph if we aren't isolating fuel from actual shear. I'm also wondering if this is the "adding up the metals" for the wear graph, which can be heavily skewed in certain applications by metals that show up in the analysis that aren't actually as a result of wear, which is why I'm violently opposed to this method.

 

[garageman402]

I'm not seeing anything mentioning fuel dilution, was that covered? I ask because it would be unusual for a 0W-8 to shear, given it would have little to no VII polymer in it, but applications that spec 0W-8, 0W-12 and 0W-16 are by and large GDI or TGDI, which more often than not, fuel dilute.

Fuel is also a horrible lubricant, so that's relevant to the "wear" graph if we aren't isolating fuel from actual shear. I'm also wondering if this is the "adding up the metals" for the wear graph, which can be heavily skewed in certain applications by metals that show up in the analysis that aren't actually as a result of wear, which is why I'm violently opposed to this method.

Yes, it was covered, I believe he said the double whammy would be an oil that shears combined with fuel dilution, e.g. long idle time, dirty injectors, etc.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yes, it was covered, I believe he said the double whammy would be an oil that shears combined with fuel dilution, e.g. long idle time, dirty injectors, etc.

OK, but how was it accounted for in these examples? Basically, I'm wondering how he's isolating viscosity loss due to shear from viscosity loss due to fuel dilution, since in examples that are GDI/TGDI, most of them are going to have moderate to high levels of fuel dilution.

 

[garageman402]

 

[garageman402]

OK, but how was it accounted for in these examples? Basically, I'm wondering how he's isolating viscosity loss due to shear from viscosity loss due to fuel dilution, since in examples that are GDI/TGDI, most of them are going to have moderate to high levels of fuel dilution.

He didn't say anything about isolating fuel dilution from mechanical shearing, he said it will compound to drive the viscosity lower. Hence a thicker grade has more resistance to fuel dilution.

 

[Nessism1]

For some it is because they are somehow incapable of discerning technical information for truth and error, and as a result are buying what they hear from an Internet influencer as wholly accurate. Or dismiss those who provide technical arguments against at least part of what is being said as “haters”. This does seem to be a common theme for those who cannot or will not understand what’s being posted here.

There is no reason to be disrespectful towards others that don't share your views. This post suggests that you feel you know best, and views and opinions of others are wrong and/or misguided.

 

[OVERKILL]

He didn't say anything about isolating fuel dilution from mechanical shearing, he said it will compound to drive the viscosity lower. Hence a thicker grade has more resistance to fuel dilution.

Right, but my point is if you are observing viscosity loss via used oil analysis, there are two drivers:
1. Shear
2. Fuel dilution

So if you've got a sample of 0W-8 with 5% fuel that's out of grade, how are we separating how much of that loss is due to mechanical shear vs fuel?

I'm focusing on this because the chart about oils being out of grade doesn't mention fuel dilution, only shear, and shows much higher wear for the lower grades (which isn't flattering for the thinner oils...) but is this actually being isolated to shear or does it include fuel? This is important because, as I mentioned earlier, most of the engines that spec these grades will be GDI or TGDI, so naturally have much higher levels of fuel dilution and since fuel is a poor lubricant, this may be indicative of the effects that fuel dilution has on used oil analysis wear rates, not just viscosity loss (which can also be due to shear).

Of course this assumes wear rate variation that's significant enough that it can be compared in this manner (IE, not statistical noise), which is why it would be nice to see iron and aluminum wear rates, not this aggregated stuff which can be heavily skewed by chemical chelation of elements like copper.

Edit:

Just an addendum, if we look at 0W-8 again and assume that the results with no visc loss (so probably no fuel) averaged ~12ppm of iron per 1,000 miles (I'm not going to fart around with the total metals stuff) and the ones with visc loss (most likely due to fuel) averaged ~52ppm per 1,000 miles, I'd say that's well beyond the statistical noise discussion and into a statistically significant impact.

 

[IndyFan]

I watched the video, read the 160 posts here (!), then watched video again. The 3 points he is challenging in the AI video are:

(1) "The same engine in other countries run 5w-30 instead of the 0w-20 specified here." That is true

(2) The video claimed "0w-20 sheared FASTER than 5w-30", that is the claim he is contesting. He showed the shear rate of all the used oil analysis he's seen & a higher percentage of 5w-30 was "out of grade" than 0w-20, but then, this doesn't take into account which engines were using either grade. We don't know how many 5w-30 samples were not so good oils vs. how many 0w-20 were "good" oils.

View attachment 318503

(3) "5w-30 produced 40% less wear than 0w-20." He says we don't know the brand of oil & whether the engine was still in break-in when those samples were taken. Break in lasting for 20K or so, the wear numbers will be higher than in engines with 50k or so. Then he goes back into the shearing speech.

View attachment 318496
View attachment 318500
View attachment 318501

Interestingly, 0w-X had a better shear rate than 5w-X. I'm thinking the 10w60 that had the 95%+ shear rate was Liqui Moly, skewing that brand's numbers.

This shows that when 0w-20 stayed in grade the wear numbers were comparable to Xw-30, but when sheared the numbers were higher for Xw-20

View attachment 318498

I think the point is a sheared 30 oil will be on par with an unsheared 20, so theoretically a 30 will give better or similar wear protection than a 20 even if the 30 shears & the 20 does not.

The only way to really know is "get it analyzed", which is what he is selling. He has also said "100% synthetic" & "full synthetic" mean the same, pure marketing. The only way to tell is...... yep, get it analyzed.

I still want to know the basis for his oil filter statement that everyone is on about. Once again, we have to wait for the next video, much like waiting for the next season of Dallas to see why Bobby Ewing isn't dead.......

Number 1 is not always true. The PUG Pentastars specify 0w20 in Europe, the Middle East, Australia, Africa, and eveywhere else it is sold. No 5w30 anywhere.

Number 2, true. But I'd bet someone running Supertech or bulk quickie change oil is as likely to submit a sample for UOA than someone running a brand name synthetic. If I were a betting man, I'd bet the sample is heavy on higher quality brand name oils. On the other hand, I would bet more 5w30's in his samples are running in turbo engines than 0w20's, so that may account for some of the greater or faster shearing. But again, you are right, we don't know for sure. But he states from the beginning that the data is limited to his company's used oil analysis. I supposed he could, if he had the time and money, break it down by brand, based on what customers fill out on the form.

 

[IndyFan]

Nice summary. The question I'd like to know is why do LSJ's videos put so many BITOG dudes panties in a twist?

Because he states things. You could state the sky is blue and you'd start a 40 page debate here.

 

[TiGeo]

Everyone please drop their YT account names so I can read your comments on this one

 

[mojoe]

There is no reason to be disrespectful towards others that don't share your views. This post suggests that you feel you know best, and views and opinions of others are wrong and/or misguided.

Spot on.

 

[Japanese]

I watched the video, read the 160 posts here (!), then watched video again. The 3 points he is challenging in the AI video are...

Thanks for the break down of the argument!
I didn't watch the video yet.

By the three point you outlined, I would say the AI is right because we discuss them on here on a daily bases.

I think LSJR just tried to make content over the AI video that just because was mentioned in the video and he didn't like that.

Mechanical shear and fuel dilution depend on so many things that cannot be controlled: engine design, driving style, oil used, OCI, vehicle mileage.

 

[Japanese]

He did put 0w-8 Toyota TGMO oil in one of his cars.

Yes, but just once and we didn't get the used oil analysis of it.
I specifically looked a few weeks ago for the second part of the video to look at the 0W-8 used oil analysis and didn't find it. And then wrote a comment to LSJR to ask him where is the second video on that car and oil.

 

[tired]

Artificial Ignorance will replace the masses

There's a theory this happened a long time ago.

Dead Internet Theory

 

[Japanese]

LSJR is calling out an AI-generated video referencing him saying 5W-30 is better than 0W-20. He provides data from his analysis showing that 0W-20 can provide better wear protection... unless the oil shears out of grade. Then the tables turn.

LSJR just run out of ideas around Christmas and New Year and decided to argue with an AI video to create more content.

In all 3 point the AI video are correct:
- Engines run 0W-20 only in ghe US and 5W-30 (and higher grades) elsewhere
- 0W-20 shears faster (goes out of grade) and then its protection is not optimal (we've seen this in many UOA)
- 5W-30 provides 40% better protection because even if it shears down it still protects the engine better than 0W-20 if shears down

His claims that 0W-20 shears down twice less (actually on the graph is triple less) than 5W-30 and that 0W-20 provides the same protection (only if it stays in grade) if not better as 5W-30 is data in his imaginary world that we don't know how true it is and what were the oil samples from (engines, oil brands, OCI, mileage etc.).

 

[kschachn]

In all 3 point the AI video are correct:
- Engines run 0W-20 only in ghe US and 5W-30 (and higher grades) elsewhere
- 0W-20 shears faster (goes out of grade) and then its protection is not optimal (we've seen this in many UOA)
- 5W-30 provides 40% better protection because even if it shears down it still protects the engine better than 0W-20 if shears down

His claims that 0W-20 shears down twice less (actually on the graph is triple less) than 5W-30 and that 0W-20 provides the same protection (only if it stays in grade) if not better as 5W-30 is data in his imaginary world that we don't know how true it is and what were the oil samples from (engines, oil brands, OCI, mileage etc.).

Neither one of those is established. Japan is one country that pioneered the use of low-viscosity oils well before the United States. @IndyFan notes above are also correct.

Going out of grade isn't the same as shear. Yes, mechanical shear of the VII can cause the oil to "go out of grade" but that's not the only cause. The continued misuse of "shear" as the reason for a viscosity deviation is rampant here and in the video.