LSJR Boutique vs OTS shootout

[rstsco]

This is indeed the BITOG.................dare I say..................consensus?

That's pretty daring, alright.

 

[GW.]

Nothing is perfect but this is the closest we’ll ever get to a fair shootout. I believe Lake wants to do a deeper dive on the results at some point.

I call out Lakes good and bad vids and this one was excellent IMO.

 

[Hohn]

I saw this in 2006! I ran racing 5W-20 in our Honda Ody. Filthy!

Yes, because cleanliness isn't a super high priority for racing oils.

I might suggest that one takeaway from this test is that since the difference between premium oils in terms of wear performance isn't super high, one should make cleanliness-- and the ability to maintain such-- the primary discriminator between oils under consideration.

THus, for me, I'm going to prefer an HPL or Mobil 1 or Valvoline Restore and Protect which are fairly proven to be quite clean running over the long haul.

I'm not sure how different the base oils in Pennzoil Platinum and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum are, but since Pennzoil Platinum varnished up pretty badly in my Odyssey, I'm loathe to lump Pennzoil Ultra Platinum into that super-clean oil category. That's not to say it doesn't deserve to be there-- it's just that I don't personally have evidence or knowledge of it running as clean as the three I mentioned.

I thought Pennzoil Platinum was GTL also? Whether base oil related or add pack related, I was unimpressed with the "made from natural gas" SOPUS products in terms of cleanliness.

 

[fen1]

So in the end, folks will like what they like/not like what they don't like regardless of testing and data, shocker. Get off my lawn.

There is a lot of TRUTH to this.

 

[mkiv808]

I see a lot of sentiment that HPL is a waste unless you run extended OCI’s.

I run in the opposite. Very low mileage intervals as it’s in a high revving flat plane crank V8 that doesn’t get driven more than about 2,000 miles a year.

But I figure under high levels of stress, and an annual track day, the shear stability, cleaning ability, ester content (for old seals and gaskets) can’t hurt. Would I really get no less benefit running an off the shelf oil instead of Supercar 5w40?

Same thought with other V8 weekend car. It calls for 10w60 so I recently used Amsoil’s Euro oil which gave me a very very clean UOA. I may try Redline 10w60 next as it’s available locally at FCP.

The daily driver gets whatever. Currently Motul Eco Clean 0w30 as I do the oil exchange at FCP. It’s never seen an OCI longer than 4k miles so I’m not terribly concerned with deposits. Maybe next summer I’ll run HPL Engine Cleaner for giggles.

 

[Tom NJ]

Oil is oil

I remember calling on Castrol in Australia some 25 years ago and seeing a big sign at the entrance stating "Oil Ain't Oil". Had a good laugh!

 

[TiGeo]

I see a lot of sentiment that HPL is a waste unless you run extended OCI’s.

I run in the opposite. Very low mileage intervals as it’s in a high revving flat plane crank V8 that doesn’t get driven more than about 2,000 miles a year.

But I figure under high levels of stress, and an annual track day, the shear stability, cleaning ability, ester content (for old seals and gaskets) can’t hurt. Would I really get no less benefit running an off the shelf oil instead of Supercar 5w40?

Same thought with other V8 weekend car. It calls for 10w60 so I recently used Amsoil’s Euro oil which gave me a very very clean UOA. I may try Redline 10w60 next as it’s available locally at FCP.

The daily driver gets whatever. Currently Motul Eco Clean 0w30 as I do the oil exchange at FCP. It’s never seen an OCI longer than 4k miles so I’m not terribly concerned with deposits. Maybe next summer I’ll run HPL Engine Cleaner for giggles.

Have you seen my data on a long-ish interval (just shy of 10K miles) AND track time? My 1.8 is over 200hp/L so a wound-out turbo and the oil looks just fine after. HPL tested my used oil for the shear test/HTHS and it was basically unchanged.

 

[kschachn]

Have you seen my data on a long-ish interval (just shy of 10K miles) AND track time? My 1.8 is over 200hp/L so a wound-out turbo and the oil looks just fine after. HPL tested my used oil for the shear test/HTHS and it was basically unchanged.

Which one was it again?

 

[TiGeo]

Which one was it again?

It was the HTHS test. Retruned a 3.9 cp vs. 4.0 cp virgin/per their spec sheet.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

Yes, because cleanliness isn't a super high priority for racing oils.

I might suggest that one takeaway from this test is that since the difference between premium oils in terms of wear performance isn't super high, one should make cleanliness-- and the ability to maintain such-- the primary discriminator between oils under consideration.

THus, for me, I'm going to prefer an HPL or Mobil 1 or Valvoline Restore and Protect which are fairly proven to be quite clean running over the long haul.

I'm not sure how different the base oils in Pennzoil Platinum and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum are, but since Pennzoil Platinum varnished up pretty badly in my Odyssey, I'm loathe to lump Pennzoil Ultra Platinum into that super-clean oil category. That's not to say it doesn't deserve to be there-- it's just that I don't personally have evidence or knowledge of it running as clean as the three I mentioned.

I thought Pennzoil Platinum was GTL also? Whether base oil related or add pack related, I was unimpressed with the "made from natural gas" SOPUS products in terms of cleanliness.

Regular Pennzoil Platinum is indeed GTL. How many miles were you running it for in your Odyssey?

 

[Hohn]

Regular Pennzoil Platinum is indeed GTL. How many miles were you running it for in your Odyssey?

about 10 years, roughly 2010-2020. So 120k or so.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

about 10 years, roughly 2010-2020. So 120k or so.

How many miles per OCI usually?

 

[PontiacHO]

Didn’t watch the video so probably have no right to question anything….
Did Speedo use the same engine to test for “break in” results and wear metals?

 

[Hohn]

I see a lot of sentiment that HPL is a waste unless you run extended OCI’s.

I run in the opposite. Very low mileage intervals as it’s in a high revving flat plane crank V8 that doesn’t get driven more than about 2,000 miles a year.

But I figure under high levels of stress, and an annual track day, the shear stability, cleaning ability, ester content (for old seals and gaskets) can’t hurt. Would I really get no less benefit running an off the shelf oil instead of Supercar 5w40?

Same thought with other V8 weekend car. It calls for 10w60 so I recently used Amsoil’s Euro oil which gave me a very very clean UOA. I may try Redline 10w60 next as it’s available locally at FCP.

The daily driver gets whatever. Currently Motul Eco Clean 0w30 as I do the oil exchange at FCP. It’s never seen an OCI longer than 4k miles so I’m not terribly concerned with deposits. Maybe next summer I’ll run HPL Engine Cleaner for giggles.

I think people tend to think of HPL primarily in terms of most expensive products in their line-- the HPL Premium Plus PCMO and Supercar and what not.


But just basic PCMO is a solid 10k oil for most people. Shipped to me, it's $11.70/qt in 12qt qty.

Euro FS is $30/5qt at Wal mart near me. That's $6qt or roughly half of the HPL. But at the part store purchased in 1qt bottles, the Euro FS is $12/qt. I think if not for WalMart, nobody would consider HPL particularly expensive at all.

Ravenol is $20/L shipped to me. AMSOIL Signature Series at my local retailer is $18/qt

The argument that HPL is a "waste" is sort of dumb because even changing the oil at all is a waste when many cars can survive 30k or without an oil change. Life insurance is a complete and total waste for every month you live. It's only when you die that it's worth anything.

All maintenance is similarly a waste-- you are paying a certain cost now to guard against a foreseeable but uncertain risk in the future.


Those who say HPL is a waste probably thinks it's a waste to carry a $1M of term life insurance when you could probably just carry $200k. And it might be. You might be over insured. But you know, some people truly think they're lives are worth a bit more and want to spend a small increment extra to have a greater cushion in the future.

HPL is a very modest luxury, one that is easily afforded with just some minor sacrifices to daily luxuries like morning McDonalds or barista coffee or such.

Valuation is always an inherently personal, subjective thing.

 

[Hohn]

Didn’t watch the video so probably have no right to question anything….
Did Speedo use the same engine to test for “break in” results and wear metals?

No break in on this engine-- it already had 7000+ dyno pulls when he started.

 

[Hohn]

How many miles per OCI usually?

OLM had me changing about 7k-8k.

 

[TiGeo]

I think people tend to think of HPL primarily in terms of most expensive products in their line-- the HPL Premium Plus PCMO and Supercar and what not.


But just basic PCMO is a solid 10k oil for most people. Shipped to me, it's $11.70/qt in 12qt qty.

Euro FS is $30/5qt at Wal mart near me. That's $6qt or roughly half of the HPL. But at the part store purchased in 1qt bottles, the Euro FS is $12/qt. I think if not for WalMart, nobody would consider HPL particularly expensive at all.

Ravenol is $20/L shipped to me. AMSOIL Signature Series at my local retailer is $18/qt

The argument that HPL is a "waste" is sort of dumb because even changing the oil at all is a waste when many cars can survive 30k or without an oil change. Life insurance is a complete and total waste for every month you live. It's only when you die that it's worth anything.

All maintenance is similarly a waste-- you are paying a certain cost now to guard against a foreseeable but uncertain risk in the future.


Those who say HPL is a waste probably thinks it's a waste to carry a $1M of term life insurance when you could probably just carry $200k. And it might be. You might be over insured. But you know, some people truly think they're lives are worth a bit more and want to spend a small increment extra to have a greater cushion in the future.

HPL is a very modest luxury, one that is easily afforded with just some minor sacrifices to daily luxuries like morning McDonalds or barista coffee or such.

Valuation is always an inherently personal, subjective thing.

And almost everyone on this site is doing 5K changes on whatever Walmart oil they use so double what you can easily do on their modest product line should make the economics nearly a wash.

 

[MrJayhawk]

I think people tend to think of HPL primarily in terms of most expensive products in their line-- the HPL Premium Plus PCMO and Supercar and what not.


But just basic PCMO is a solid 10k oil for most people. Shipped to me, it's $11.70/qt in 12qt qty.

Euro FS is $30/5qt at Wal mart near me. That's $6qt or roughly half of the HPL. But at the part store purchased in 1qt bottles, the Euro FS is $12/qt. I think if not for WalMart, nobody would consider HPL particularly expensive at all.

If you have a Costco membership, they run Mobil 1 specials—a 6 pk of qts for 31.49 or 5.25 a qt.

 

[facility1]

why not consider AMSOIL Signature Series, its more affordable with the preferred customer pricing and does long oci with very good proven results.

 

[FranklinJL]

I think people tend to think of HPL primarily in terms of most expensive products in their line-- the HPL Premium Plus PCMO and Supercar and what not.


But just basic PCMO is a solid 10k oil for most people. Shipped to me, it's $11.70/qt in 12qt qty.

Euro FS is $30/5qt at Wal mart near me. That's $6qt or roughly half of the HPL. But at the part store purchased in 1qt bottles, the Euro FS is $12/qt. I think if not for WalMart, nobody would consider HPL particularly expensive at all.

Ravenol is $20/L shipped to me. AMSOIL Signature Series at my local retailer is $18/qt

The argument that HPL is a "waste" is sort of dumb because even changing the oil at all is a waste when many cars can survive 30k or without an oil change. Life insurance is a complete and total waste for every month you live. It's only when you die that it's worth anything.

All maintenance is similarly a waste-- you are paying a certain cost now to guard against a foreseeable but uncertain risk in the future.


Those who say HPL is a waste probably thinks it's a waste to carry a $1M of term life insurance when you could probably just carry $200k. And it might be. You might be over insured. But you know, some people truly think they're lives are worth a bit more and want to spend a small increment extra to have a greater cushion in the future.

HPL is a very modest luxury, one that is easily afforded with just some minor sacrifices to daily luxuries like morning McDonalds or barista coffee or such.

Valuation is always an inherently personal, subjective thing.

Most people dont drive high performance cars either. The only argument I ever here against expensive oils, is well that **** Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 0w40 thats what $27 at Walmart.......Ive seen it produce stellar results in 900hp cars all day.....crazy that it works so well, even though it turns to water.....Im a HPL user now, because I like oils with high moly levels.....plus HPL is an American Company and theyll answer any question you have about their oils....