Lots of new Ram trucks rotting on dealer lots it seems

I said a few years ago there would be Chinese branded vehicles on our roads. I was wrong. I did not forsee certain global things ( that shouldn't be mentioned here- lest this thread would be shut down). But your grand children could see them on the roads. And make no mistakes- they are competitive appearance wise and if offered with a " Hyundai Type" warranty and if they are priced right people will buy them. Detroit has many issues, caused by themselves or those who put them ( vehicles) together. It's a house of cards.
The high standard of living in America made it uncompetitive, and that high standard of living was in part achieved by those grandfathers and great grandfathers who worked in those Detroit factories.

Scott
 
Detroit peaked in 1970 ish. By the end of the 70's Detroit was already starting to decay, which is when Toyota and Honda showed up, but even that wasn't enough of a wake up call - they had to keep doing what they were doing all the way till 2008 when 1 went bankrupt, one was sold and one accumulated such debt they can never pay it off.

The last 15 years of ZIRP and other structural benefits they chose to buy back stock than try to make better product and reform their performance.

They clearly did it to themselves. You can't blame anyone else, as sad as that might be.
You and I agree on many things @SC Maintenance, and I do agree in part with some of what you said. I agree that the poor work ethic of the autoworker unions was indeed part of the problem. That said, I put that on "management" as much as I do the unions. For example, does anyone think Mary Barra is the type of visionary who can steer GM to greatness? How about the most recent cast of IDIOTS running Boeing? We will be flying on Chinese aircraft in 20 years - and the irony is they'll be better and cheaper. Whose fault is that?

Scott
 
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You and I agree on many things @SC Maintenance, and I do agree in part with some of what you said. I agree that the poor work ethic of the autoworker unions was indeed part of the problem. That said, I put that on "management" as much as I do the unions. For example, does anyone think Mary Barra is the type of visionary who can steer GM to greatness? How about the most recent cast of IDIOTS running Boeing? You will be flying on Chinese aircraft in 20 years.

Scott
Yup. I do wonder what people will be saying once the Boeings, Lockheed Martins etc. start to get their stuff from China.
 
You and I agree on many things @SC Maintenance, and I do agree in part with some of what you said. I agree that the poor work ethic of the autoworker unions was indeed part of the problem. That said, I put that on "management" as much as I do the unions. For example, does anyone think Mary Barra is the type of visionary who can steer GM to greatness? How about the most recent cast of IDIOTS running Boeing? We will be flying on Chinese aircraft in 20 years - and the irony is they'll be better and cheaper. Whose fault is that?

Scott
I never said it had anything to do with the Unions.

The big 3 are not the only ones with labor issues. German labor is all Union and expensive, yet they build cars there. The Japanese ran out of labor decades ago, so they moved factories elsewhere. But they actually built real factories of their own, not bought leftovers like Daewoo.

Ford and GM have Mexican factories where the labor rate is $18 an hour (Union), so really no excuse at all.

No, this one clearly falls at leadership, or the lack thereof as the case may be.
 
If the Chinese EV's hit our market they will take over all the market share. I believe that Tesla will not be in the car building business in a decade. The American offerings are weak. The Korean and European offerings are weak too. The younger demographic will snap up cheap EV's as there is no trace of brand loyalty to be had and vehicles will be treated like the tool that they really are. Look at your televisions and appliances. I.C.E. will be a happy memory sooner rather than later.
 
I never said it had anything to do with the Unions.

The big 3 are not the only ones with labor issues. German labor is all Union and expensive, yet they build cars there. The Japanese ran out of labor decades ago, so they moved factories elsewhere. But they actually built real factories of their own, not bought leftovers like Daewoo.

Ford and GM have Mexican factories where the labor rate is $18 an hour (Union), so really no excuse at all.

No, this one clearly falls at leadership, or the lack thereof as the case may be.
Thanks for the clarification. I agree.

Scott
 
Yup. I do wonder what people will be saying once the Boeings, Lockheed Martins etc. start to get their stuff from China.
Empires rise and fall.

The path we are on is the fall of the American empire and the end of the Western way of life. Whether we continue to stumble forward, capitulating to the rising Sino-Empire and the eclipse, and then collapse of Western democracy is a decision that rests within our hands.

This is the 2nd Cold War, except this time we are glue-sniffing half-wits blinded by cheap trinkets; drunk on consumerism and our opponent is vastly more competent and well-resourced than the Soviets ever were.
 
If the Chinese EV's hit our market they will take over all the market share. I believe that Tesla will not be in the car building business in a decade. The American offerings are weak. The Korean and European offerings are weak too. The younger demographic will snap up cheap EV's as there is no trace of brand loyalty to be had and vehicles will be treated like the tool that they really are. Look at your televisions and appliances. I.C.E. will be a happy memory sooner rather than later.
Maybe. I still think their is a pretty big difference between a disposable TV and a auto. I don't think they will be able to with all the US safety regs.

I really don't want to buy anything from the CCP. I stopped buying from the ingrates in Detroit years ago as well. If they wanted my business they would build better cars.

Tesla was a start up. Maybe there will be more, focusing on inexpensive stuff unlike Rivian and Fiskar?
 
Maybe. I still think their is a pretty big difference between a disposable TV and a auto. I don't think they will be able to with all the US safety regs.

I really don't want to buy anything from the CCP. I stopped buying from the ingrates in Detroit years ago as well. If they wanted my business they would build better cars.

Tesla was a start up. Maybe there will be more, focusing on inexpensive stuff unlike Rivian and Fiskar?
If the Chinese can build a nuclear plant, they can build a car.
 
Empires rise and fall.

The path we are on is the fall of the American empire and the end of the Western way of life. Whether we continue to stumble forward, capitulating to the rising Sino-Empire and the eclipse, and then collapse of Western democracy is a decision that rests within our hands.

This is the 2nd Cold War, except this time we are glue-sniffing half-wits blinded by cheap trinkets; drunk on consumerism and our opponent is vastly more competent and well-resourced than the Soviets ever were.
Yes, ultimately true regardless how superior any one group feels.

It's worse than glue; we shoot down and "hate" American entrepreneurial endeavors; look at the Tesla phenomenon.
For once an American company is leading the world; one would think we should salute their efforts.

Living and prospering in Silicon Valley has taught me to try something new and embrace change.
Leaders don't follow. And true success does not chase short term profits.
 
Maybe. I still think their is a pretty big difference between a disposable TV and a auto. I don't think they will be able to with all the US safety regs.

I really don't want to buy anything from the CCP. I stopped buying from the ingrates in Detroit years ago as well. If they wanted my business they would build better cars.

Tesla was a start up. Maybe there will be more, focusing on inexpensive stuff unlike Rivian and Fiskar?
There isn't. The Chinese can put together perfectly fine autos. They are leading in EVs world wide.
 
This is the 2nd Cold War, except this time we are glue-sniffing half-wits blinded by cheap trinkets; drunk on consumerism and our opponent is vastly more competent and well-resourced than the Soviets ever were.
This is one of the myths that we were fed during the 1st Cold War - that the Soviets were a "superpower". The Soviets were never a superpower. All they had was a modern, nuclear armed military.

During their so-called superpower era I doubt they were capable of manufacturing real looking rubber dog poop. The Soviets were incapable of exporting anything world class except for vodka and their natural resources.

On the contrary, China can do it all. China is a superpower.

Scott
 
How about the most recent cast of IDIOTS running Boeing? We will be flying on Chinese aircraft in 20 years - and the irony is they'll be better and cheaper. Whose fault is that?

Scott
We won't be flying on Chinese aircraft in twenty years nor will the EU.
Doesn't matter. The real growth is in Asia, not North America or Europe. The Chinese will leverage their efforts by making deals they can't refuse to their own carriers as well as those of developing Asian nations. This will cut off a huge source of future Boeing and Airbus sales. Then there is Africa, a continent rich in people, arable land and natural resources. All it will take is for a Chinese style government to gain hold and the continent will prosper, and the Chinese already have a significant presence. What about India? What if the two become commercial partners rather than maintaining their adversarial stance?
A lot of potential changes that look very possible none of which bode well for the developed West.
 
We won't be flying on Chinese aircraft in twenty years nor will the EU.
Doesn't matter. The real growth is in Asia, not North America or Europe. The Chinese will leverage their efforts by making deals they can't refuse to their own carriers as well as those of developing Asian nations. This will cut off a huge source of future Boeing and Airbus sales. Then there is Africa, a continent rich in people, arable land and natural resources. All it will take is for a Chinese style government to gain hold and the continent will prosper, and the Chinese already have a significant presence. What about India? What if the two become commercial partners rather than maintaining their adversarial stance?
A lot of potential changes that look very possible none of which bode well for the developed West.
You mean like they have "partnered" (bankrupted) Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Congo, Laos, etc by lending money to their corrupt leaders then taking key infrastructure as payment?

There is a reason that Japan, S. Korea, Thailand, Australia, New Zealan are partnering with us, not China. Many other countries are looking to strengthen ties also. China is out of people and out of money. Don't believe the fearmongers. We have seen the enemy, and it is us.
 
You mean like they have "partnered" (bankrupted) Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Congo, Laos, etc by lending money to their corrupt leaders then taking key infrastructure as payment?

There is a reason that Japan, S. Korea, Thailand, Australia, New Zealan are partnering with us, not China. Many other countries are looking to strengthen ties also. China is out of people and out of money. Don't believe the fearmongers. We have seen the enemy, and it is us.
When China partner's with another nation, it is an entirely proprietary transaction. All the technology involved is proprietary to China, and this prevents a nation from kicking China out.

I don't concur that other nations' are partnering with the U.S. and not China. I think these countries are hedging their bets with both sides.

Finly, China does.not have this law on their books. Not having this law gives China great access to many people and their nations'.

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977, as amended, 15 U.S.C. §§ 78dd-1, et seq. ("FCPA"), was enacted for the purpose of making it unlawful for certain classes of persons and entities to make payments to foreign government officials to assist in obtaining or retaining business.
 
When China partner's with another nation, it is an entirely proprietary transaction. All the technology involved is proprietary to China, and this prevents a nation from kicking China out.

I don't concur that other nations' are partnering with the U.S. and not China. I think these countries are hedging their bets with both sides.

Finly, China does.not have this law on their books. Not having this law gives China great access to many people and their nations'.

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977, as amended, 15 U.S.C. §§ 78dd-1, et seq. ("FCPA"), was enacted for the purpose of making it unlawful for certain classes of persons and entities to make payments to foreign government officials to assist in obtaining or retaining business.
Well if you call bribing corrupt leaders to hand over the keys to the kingdom for a few strings of beads while the serfs continue to suffer, then I guess.

They were doing a pretty good job of it here also. I remember a very prominent person saying "those jobs are never coming back, get over it". But here a few years later, it seems at least some are coming back. 🤷‍♂️

Anyway, we have strayed a long way from Ram trucks, so I will stop there.
 
This is one of the myths that we were fed during the 1st Cold War - that the Soviets were a "superpower". The Soviets were never a superpower. All they had was a modern, nuclear armed military.

During their so-called superpower era I doubt they were capable of manufacturing real looking rubber dog poop. The Soviets were incapable of exporting anything world class except for vodka and their natural resources.

On the contrary, China can do it all. China is a superpower.

Scott
Why do you think that is? Did we do much trade at all with the USSR? China is a superpower because of specific trade policies first adopted by the US and implemented by the CEOs of US corporations that then moved to other western countries.
 
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