Lots of new Ram trucks rotting on dealer lots it seems

[CKN]

The problem is that even if the data is correct, the prices are up so much in the last few years that no growth in prices, or a small negative amount, will not be noticeable. But I share your skeptical view, you make a fair point.

I don’t think the problem is confined to Ram. We have an auto park near us and all the dealers are full relative to a few months or year or so ago.

Final anecdotal data point: a family member called me over the weekend wanting advice on whether to put a new motor in the Audi Q something they have (~$10k) or buy a new car. Problem is that even though both spouses are attorneys and earn a healthy living, they were shocked by the prices and are seriously considering repairing the car they have. I would guess they are at the upper end of the consumer spectrum and so while they are conservative financially, to me it was very telling. They didn’t like the prices and commented you get nothing for your money. Another fair observation.

This is why a lot of people are really suffering and it greatly irritates me when we are given this overly positive view of things by the major news outlets. I think a lot of folks are struggling, and car prices are
Just one aspect of it.

If they are both attorneys and can't afford a new car-I wouldn't hire them to represent me......BTW-having just bought two vehicles in the past several months-a 2023 SiIlverado and a 2022 Highlander-vehicles are packed with more features than ever before, both safety and convenience. So-getting "nothing for your money" is nonsensical. Whether the features are well received by this forum is another issue.

But yea-vehicles are expensive-that we can agree on.

 

[IndyIan]

Many Chinese pickups on the roads in that part of the world as well.

Yep, and a couple of 125-200cc chinese honda motorcycle copies, that outnumbered actual honda's by a fair margin, and those seem to be lasting for many years there.
Building simple machines well is possible in china, and if they didn't hold up, they wouldn't be popular in Costa Rica, as the import tariffs put the prices well above disposable status.

 

[CKN]

Yep, and a couple of 125-200cc chinese honda motorcycle copies, that outnumbered actual honda's by a fair margin, and those seem to be lasting for many years there.
Building simple machines well is possible in china, and if they didn't hold up, they wouldn't be popular there, as the import tariffs put the prices well above disposable status.

They (Costa Rico and most South American Countries) have favored trade status with China. Saw a new Chinese sedan displayed in a mall in Ecuador-fit and finish was on par with anything made by U.S. manufacturers.

 

[KrisZ]

“Hey look, poor countries have tons of Chinese junk vehicles, we should also allow them here.”

Very sound economic trade logic.

 

[RAVL]

If they are both attorneys and can't afford a new car-I wouldn't hire them to represent me......BTW-having just bought two vehicles in the past several months-a 2023 SiIlverado and a 2022 Highlander-vehicles are packed with more features than ever before, both safety and convenience. So-getting "nothing for your money" is nonsensical. Whether the features are well received by this forum is another issue.

But yea-vehicles are expensive-that we can agree on.

They probably make north of $500k a year. Separate what you can spend and what is smart to spend. Have a good day.

 

[CKN]

“Hey look, poor countries have tons of Chinese junk vehicles, we should also allow them here.”

Very sound economic trade logic.

If you see the( poor) roads in many parts of South America and all the Chinese pickups on the road- anecdotally they are not junk. But yea-many on this forum don't travel internationally much.
Buy some Buicks- we are already allowing Chinese vehicles. Oh thats different because GM....yea right.

 

[KrisZ]

If you see the( poor) roads in many parts of South America and all the Chinese pickups on the road- anecdotally they are not junk. But yea-many on this forum don't travel internationally much.
Buy some Buicks- we are already allowing Chinese vehicles. Oh thats different because GM....yea right.

When you have dirt cheap labor, you can keep all sorts of junk on the road making them look reliable to the outsiders.

I lived in a communist country, we had all sorts of automobiles made under this regime. You would not believe how much work most of the junk needed just to be on the road. But if someone from the west visited, all they saw were cars driving perfectly fine on the roads.

 

[loneryder]

I think it's all the over priced pickups. Toyota dealer in a small city near me has over 25 sitting on their lot. Normally they wouldn't have that many even before Covid.

 

[sloinker]

Many domestic brands that are still '23 models on the lots. '25s on the way. Not sure what sort of Voodoo economics compels these dealerships/manufacturer's to believe they can actually sell these vehicles at anywhere near MSRP. If they want to move these vehicles it will have to be less than invoice, probably substantially. Toyota pickups are still selling despite their grenade-ing engines. Loyal customer base for their trucks. Probably gonna lose some of them depending on their treatment by Toyota. Nissan trucks are a relative bargain but are also overpriced imo. Interesting times ahead.

 

[IndyIan]

When you have dirt cheap labor, you can keep all sorts of junk on the road making them look reliable to the outsiders.

I lived in a communist country, we had all sorts of automobiles made under this regime. You would not believe how much work most of the junk needed just to be on the road. But if someone from the west visited, all they saw were cars driving perfectly fine on the roads.

In Costa Rica, I suppose the benefit of having higher import tariffs for vehicles, is that they do keep more money in the country employing their citizens, instead of sending the money off shore for new complicated expensive disposable cars...
Also the country doesn't really need large vehicles capable of cruising at 80mph in near silence, they don't have the roads for that. We didn't do a ton of driving but I saw far less accidents than I would here, despite the lack of well lined or well maintained roads.

 

[Allaneddie]

Many domestic brands that are still '23 models on the lots. '25s on the way. Not sure what sort of Voodoo economics compels these dealerships/manufacturer's to believe they can actually sell these vehicles at anywhere near MSRP. If they want to move these vehicles it will have to be less than invoice, probably substantially. Toyota pickups are still selling despite their grenade-ing engines. Loyal customer base for their trucks. Probably gonna lose some of them depending on their treatment by Toyota. Nissan trucks are a relative bargain but are also overpriced imo. Interesting times ahead.

The RAM dealer closest to me is advertising prices on their website for 2023 and 2024 models with discounts from MSRP of $8,000 to $12,000 They are still expensive but unlikely to get dramatically cheaper. Agree that if they want to move them: invoice or lower is the way to do it.

 

[sloinker]

The RAM dealer closest to me is advertising prices on their website for 2023 and 2024 models with discounts from MSRP of $8,000 to $12,000 They are still expensive but unlikely to get dramatically cheaper. Agree that if they want to move them: invoice or lower is the way to do it.

There is a Ram dealer in the Carolina's that is the national price leader. Fella on here got a new truck from them for far below MSRP. May be a place to look locally if you are in the market. Here's the thread.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2024-ram-2500-quick-review.384797/

 

[CKN]

When you have dirt cheap labor, you can keep all sorts of junk on the road making them look reliable to the outsiders.

I lived in a communist country, we had all sorts of automobiles made under this regime. You would not believe how much work most of the junk needed just to be on the road. But if someone from the west visited, all they saw were cars driving perfectly fine on the roads.

Of course you know world wide BYD sells more electric vehicles than anyone. Must be real junk.

N

 

[KrisZ]

Of course you know world wide BYD sells more electric vehicles than anyone. Must be real junk.

N

Is that a measure of a good product?

Besides, why would that be of any consequence to allowing them here without any handicap? EU is buying more and more of their junk and their manufacturing base shrinks every year. Let them buy these cheaper chinese cars all they want and destroy their economy.
That is not something I want to see or my kids, or grand kids to see.

 

[slo town]

Is that a measure of a good product?

Besides, why would that be of any consequence to allowing them here without any handicap? EU is buying more and more of their junk and their manufacturing base shrinks every year. Let them buy these cheaper chinese cars all they want and destroy their economy.
That is not something I want to see or my kids, or grand kids to see.

People need to understand the reality - when some boats are rising, others are sinking. With things like manufacturing, in the end it's a "zero sum" game because unlimited growth that benefits all is impossible. All one needs to do is look at Detroit. More cars than ever before are being manufactured worldwide - but Detroit is dead.

Scott

 

[Bjornviken]

Is that a measure of a good product?

Besides, why would that be of any consequence to allowing them here without any handicap? EU is buying more and more of their junk and their manufacturing base shrinks every year. Let them buy these cheaper chinese cars all they want and destroy their economy.
That is not something I want to see or my kids, or grand kids to see.

they are not cheap for the matter, and will be even more expensive by rising taxes on them.

 

[KrisZ]

People need to understand the reality - when some boats are rising, others are sinking. With things like manufacturing, in the end it's a "zero sum" game because unlimited growth that benefits all is impossible. All one needs to do is look at Detroit. More cars than ever before are being manufactured worldwide - but Detroit is dead.

Scott

But we're not talking about tides and currents and waves, you know, things that are outside of our control. We can absolutely control what we import into this country. The fall of Detroit was partly caused by the one way "global" trade.
It's rather clear that most people don't see China as a threat but an economic partner with a different ideology. Careful what you wish for, trust me it isn't going to be pretty.

 

[slo town]

But we're not talking about tides and currents and waves, you know, things that are outside of our control. We can absolutely control what we import into this country. The fall of Detroit was partly caused by the one way "global" trade.
It's rather clear that most people don't see China as a threat but an economic partner with a different ideology. Careful what you wish for, trust me it isn't going to be pretty.

We look at the "issues" in Detroit today with the "younger generation", yet many people cannot relate. Thing is, with that younger generation, their fathers probably had a nice factory job. Maybe even their grandfathers or great grandfathers too. Problem seems obvious to me, and it's not the younger generation, unless one thinks they should have become computer programmers.

At any rate, it's coming to a neighborhood near you.

Scott

 

[CKN]

But we're not talking about tides and currents and waves, you know, things that are outside of our control. We can absolutely control what we import into this country. The fall of Detroit was partly caused by the one way "global" trade.
It's rather clear that most people don't see China as a threat but an economic partner with a different ideology. Careful what you wish for, trust me it isn't going to be pretty.

I said a few years ago there would be Chinese branded vehicles on our roads. I was wrong. I did not forsee certain global things ( that shouldn't be mentioned here- lest this thread would be shut down). But your grand children could see them on the roads. And make no mistakes- they are competitive appearance wise and if offered with a " Hyundai Type" warranty and if they are priced right people will buy them. Detroit has many issues, caused by themselves or those who put them ( vehicles) together. It's a house of cards.

 

[SC Maintenance]

But we're not talking about tides and currents and waves, you know, things that are outside of our control. We can absolutely control what we import into this country. The fall of Detroit was partly caused by the one way "global" trade.
It's rather clear that most people don't see China as a threat but an economic partner with a different ideology. Careful what you wish for, trust me it isn't going to be pretty.

Detroit peaked in 1970 ish. By the end of the 70's Detroit was already starting to decay, which is when Toyota and Honda showed up, but even that wasn't enough of a wake up call - they had to keep doing what they were doing all the way till 2008 when 1 went bankrupt, one was sold and one accumulated such debt they can never pay it off.

The last 15 years of ZIRP and other structural benefits they chose to buy back stock than try to make better product and reform their performance.

They clearly did it to themselves. You can't blame anyone else, as sad as that might be.