Lots of new Ram trucks rotting on dealer lots it seems

I said no such thing.
Yep you did, lol.

What I said is that if you tow on a regular basis then a truck makes sense for you.
Would make no sense at all for me, since I can (and have) always rent one if I need to haul something for twenty bucks for the day and I have buddies with pickups I can hit up as needed. I do try to keep the personal favor account in balance with them, though.
As I did write, it's all about choices.
You do you and I do me and it's all good.

So you agree with me then. You didn't say "live and let live", but you did say "It's all about choices, you do you and I do me and it's all good" which is basically using more than 4 words to say the same thing.

Doesn't matter I'm kind of done in this thread anyway.
 
Yep you did, lol.



So you agree with me then. You didn't say "live and let live", but you did say "It's all about choices, you do you and I do me and it's all good" which is basically using more than 4 words to say the same thing.

Doesn't matter I'm kind of done in this thread anyway.
No, I did not say any such thing.
LOL!
 
based on the experience of people I actually know, a sample size of 3, the Ecoboost 2.7 is a complete disaster to own past 75 K miles with 66% failure rate of the cam chains and guides. A very expensive repair, even after Ford good willed part of the repair. One needed a replacement engine. All that to save about 2 mpg. Not worth it.

Rod
Was thinking the 3.5.
 
As I noted way up in this thread the Ford dealer here is loaded up. Still are, I pass it most every day.

I drove by the Ram dealer here and made a note that they have a lot of trucks, but not as many as I have seen in the past. Possibly there stored off site -don't know? 🤷‍♂️

The GMC dealer also has lots and lots of trucks. Maybe as many as I have ever seen there?

Don't know about the others, there not anywhere near me.
 
Was thinking the 3.5.
As as aside, It is funny the 2.7 would be a problem because the 3.5 is a really good motor, from everything I have read and based on the experience of a few guys who have accumulated a lot of mileage towing. I would think the 2.7 is just smaller. Funny the way sometimes the reliability doesn’t translate. The 3.5 tows really well but the overall fuel mileage improvement isn’t what was advertised - that is the only fault I would give it.
 
Are we talking 2.7 or 3.5? I think the 3.5, which came out sooner, had more timing set problems and then in the late teens improved?

Regardless, I’ve run heavier oil in my 2.7 after 3 shortened OCIs with the 5-30 motorcraft oem oil, which seemed about the break-in period it needed for funny oil things (losing, then making oil) to settle down. 10-30 seems like cheap insurance to add some protection to chain guides.

Any idea if thicker oil use has helped here?

Also, the 2.7 and 3.5 are not the same motor in different sizes. The 3.5 is AL while the 2.7 is something like graphine iron or something like that, same material as a full size diesel block.
 
As an aside, when Sue and I drove from Denver to Indianapolis to see the Indy 500, it seemed that 3/4s of the standard sized pickups on I-70 through eastern Colorado and all of Kansas were Ram 1500s. By no mean a scientific assessment on our part, but Sue and I noticed it to the point we mentioned it to each other.

FWIW,

Scott
As an aside, when Sue and I drove from Denver to Indianapolis to see the Indy 500, it seemed that 3/4s of the standard sized pickups on I-70 through eastern Colorado and all of Kansas were Ram 1500s. By no mean a scientific assessment on our part, but Sue and I noticed it to the point we mentioned it to each other.

FWIW,

Scott
Who is Sue?
 
It appears the lots are now officially full. There cutting back to only one shift. Unfortunately most of it is behind a paywall - but the summary:

Stellantis said its Warren Truck Assembly Plant near Detroit will be down to one daily production shift for at least the next month, resulting in a temporary layoff of about 1,600 workers. The plant, which had been running on two shifts, builds the Jeep Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer SUVs and the Ram 1500 Classic pickup

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/stellantis-job-cuts-warren-truck-plant-lays-1600-temporarily
 
It appears the lots are now officially full. There cutting back to only one shift. Unfortunately most of it is behind a paywall - but the summary:

Stellantis said its Warren Truck Assembly Plant near Detroit will be down to one daily production shift for at least the next month, resulting in a temporary layoff of about 1,600 workers. The plant, which had been running on two shifts, builds the Jeep Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer SUVs and the Ram 1500 Classic pickup

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/stellantis-job-cuts-warren-truck-plant-lays-1600-temporarily

"ram classic", not the same as the new ram 1500, the classic is the old style that they were still sellling alongside the new ones.

The wagoneers are out of reach for like 95% of the population, no surprise this plant is getting idled.
 
Lots of Rams sitting on the lots in my area some of the advertised with 14k in discounts. The Toyota dealers in my area are totally wiped out of inventory and are getting sticker price or more.
Same around me.
 
“Trucks are wasteful” unless you need them to pull an RV or a boat (that sit unused most of the year), then it’s “justified”. Yup makes perfect sense to chastise the truck owners that just commute in their trucks or simply enjoy driving one 🤣

Trucks are good for daily use.

Over extending finances to buy a truck they can’t afford is a bad idea.

I’ve met some wealthy people that always put their finances first and not made impulse purchases.
 
This is pretty wide spread across most brands right now, people are wondering…is so and so (whatever brand) in trouble right now? Toyota Tacomas supposedly are sitting and not selling, Nissan, Dodge.

In my opinion when interest rates are as high as they are, coupled with redesigns that some people aren’t comfortable with, added to $15,000 dollar price increases (on the Tacoma)…maybe people have finally reached their ceiling? Corporate America keeps raising that ceiling, have people finally said NO? Honestly I doubt it - it’s summer, people are on vacations, doing other things - when they get back they’ll add another credit card to the wallet and hit some aunt or great grandfather up for another ten grand for a down payment. Or maybe not, but for some reason I don’t have a lot of faith that people have finally wised up.
 
Local dealership still have at leadt 40 2023 Longhorn on the lot. I think there are at least 3 of those fancy offroad rig that compete with Ford Raptor.
 
Local dealership still have at leadt 40 2023 Longhorn on the lot. I think there are at least 3 of those fancy offroad rig that compete with Ford Raptor.
The TRX? If so, that's wild, they were in very high demand (my dealer has none) and they are no longer in production. Unless you are just thinking of the Rebel?
 
The TRX? If so, that's wild, they were in very high demand (my dealer has none) and they are no longer in production. Unless you are just thinking of the Rebel?
Overkill,

They are RAM Rebel trucks. There are at least three on this lot. I like the way they look and they would make a perfect toy if they weren’t $70k before additional dealership add-on, maker adjustment, taxes, and fees. So we’re talking about $85-$90k truck for what should be $45k-$50k truck. My white collar 6-figure salary had no increase for 2-3 years and only 2-3 percent increase recently so I am not buying big ticket items that had doubled in price.
 
Trucks are good for daily use.

Over extending finances to buy a truck they can’t afford is a bad idea.

I’ve met some wealthy people that always put their finances first and not made impulse purchases.
Very good, common sense observation. Some semi caffeinated ramblings, apologies in advance for the long post.

I think that persistent low interest rates have fueled society’s trend towards excessive consumption and have contributed to the distortion of our values. I am not saying this was the intended effect, just a result. I remembered a feeling of revulsion when stores started opening Thanksgiving night and having big sales so people could sometimes literally kill one another to score a good deal on a TV. Now we have become accustomed to thinking that sub 5 percent rates are a birthright.

I like to look at Bring a Trailer auctions for a few minutes once a week or so. Pretty common for people to photograph the original paperwork on the car. You will often see that for cars sold in the 1990s, the rates were often on the 9 percent range. Makes sense when you think about depreciating collateral that often has only a relatively small amount of equity. Probably also had the effect of keeping excessive consumption in check given the cost of the money. Maybe this is why, or is at least a contributing factor, as to why a base model Hyundai now has more equipment that a BMW or Mercedes sedan from the 1990s.

Another data point: my wife likes to watch reruns of Golden Girls on Hulu while we are making dinner - it is on in the background. I wasn’t following the script closely, but in an episode from 1985 (I checked the date of the episode) the main character makes reference to her mortgage rate of 7 percent and how great that rate is. Makes sense at the time - my parents bought a house in the late 70s or early 80s and the rate was double digit low teens. I bet those rates helped keep the bidding wars, six car garages, and other aspects of excessive consumption in check.

Back to cars: I know that this is about Rams. I was at the Cadillac / Chevy dealer last weekend - stopped in to look at a classic car show they had, I was with my son. Walking out, I saw a new Suburban LS, four wheel drive model. A hair under $69k list. This is the base model. Inventory at this dealer is building quickly - I drive by several times a week in my travels. He has about two dozen electric Cadillacs available as well. My sense is that the price on many large purchases that often involve financing have gone up not only because of underlying inflation in the economy, but because of the large supply of cheap money available. I know to some extent they are the same thing or related but it is like college tuition. Everyone always marvels at the cost of college. It goes up as much as it does in large measure because there is an expectation that there is a large supply of government loans and other aid available, so the price you see is not representative of the actual price - the pool of cheap money distorts the pricing. Same with high end vehicles that are not luxury brands. The automakers have become spoiled to some degree, thinking they can fold in thousands of dollars of cost and high end features and customers won’t blanch at the cost because it costs an extra $6 a month on the zero percent 84 month term they signed up for - I exaggerate but you get the point. Decisions about car designs are made years in advance, so these vehicles that were probably to some degree spec’d with certain assumptions about the cost being cheap to finance.

Now I read in the WSJ that the Fed has a great case to start cutting rates because the latest jobs number had softened. I don’t understand this argument. The economy appears to be growing well, and job growth appears steady. Other than inflation, which is still too high but definitely slowing, things are ok by historical standards. (There are other serious problems certainly, I don’t want to sound like everything is hunky dory under Uncle Joe.). But put the election season stuff aside and the Fed is at 5 or so. That is a very moderate rate by historical standards, and if the economy is ok, and inflation is coming down but still too high, why is there this clamor to cut, cut, cut? I think the reason is simply that the financial markets, reflecting most of the behavior in the economy, are addicted to cheap money to fuel endless and nonsensical consumption - everything from buying a $75k pick up truck every three years to a new $1k plus iPhone every two years. It is crazy from a financial responsibility standpoint, and my belief is that it is also corrosive to the individuals involved.

Where I wind up is that I don’t mind if the automakers and other businesses gorging themselves on cheap money learn, or relearn, a lesson or two about value. I also think consumers have to wisen up, not just in the financial sense but also in returning to more of the common sense and values that I believe were more prevalent in the prior generations — too much conspicuous consumption.

Finally, get off my lawn! ;-)

Have a good Sunday everyone.
 
@RAVL makes a very good point.
If you want more of something make it cheaper and if you want less make it more dear.
Since financing availability and cost matter to most buyers, the effect of higher interest rates is to make monthly cost to buy more dear, so felt demand, in terms of willingness to pay a given price is reduced. So, inventory piles up.
The adjustment has been slow in coming, but the wiser dealers will clear their inventory at lower transaction prices while the slower ones will hold their pricing as though it's still 2021 with low floor plan rates and low inventory.
 
Trucks are good for daily use.

Over extending finances to buy a truck they can’t afford is a bad idea.

I’ve met some wealthy people that always put their finances first and not made impulse purchases.
I am definitely not wealthy but do try my best to put my finance first. My recent Canadian vacation probably cost $5k and lodging and dinning out were the biggest factors. I don’t know how much my wife’s niece paid for the 3 weeks AirBNB for 5 people (we stayed for 2 but other relatives stay another week after we came back to the States) but I gave her $2300 cash gift. Dinning out for 7-9 people were running us $200+ each time.
 
I know a few people in the $3-6M net worth range (excluding home and cars) that do NOT buy new iPhones yearly and replace cars every few years.

They don’t post stupid photos on 10 social media apps where they eat or vacation.

————————————————

Posers have to present an ‘image’ wherever they go.

These are the same people that foolishly spent all their Covid cash and told their landlord they don’t have to pay a penny of rent because of the rent moratoriums.

I still believe things will be propped up until the beginning of next year.
 
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