Ram 3500 6.4l hemi engine failure after using Fram oil filter

[cptbarkey]

Yeah, they use the same lifters as the 5.7 (as does the 6.2L SC, just without MDS).

This I also feel is likely what happened, OP has been silent for awhile, hence much attention over speculation over an unlikely filter event.

 

[johnmyster]

And seriously. How's pre-filling an oil filter any different than pouring oil into the crankcase? It's a much larger hole on the top of the engine. If your risking introducing contamination with one, heaven knows what's being introduced with the other.

The prefill pundits advocate that if you pour your dirty oil in the crankcase, it gets pumped through the filter before going to important places. To which I say, maybe you shouldn't buy dirty oil. Personally, I'm pouring directly from a clean bottle, not using a dusty bucket to carry oil across the diesel shop from the 255 gal tote. Just make sure you keep track of the foil seal and you're good.

The prefill advocates don't like the time the engine has to run without oil while the filter refills. When I prefill my filter I do it with clean oil. As a bonus, my truck doesn't have an ADBV, so I could, in theory, pour into the inlet side rather than outlet.

I'm going to make a tshirt that says "I prefill my oil filters."

I don't have a cat, so I don't care about their recommendations.

 

[wemay]

The prefill pundits advocate that if you pour your dirty oil in the crankcase, it gets pumped through the filter before going to important places. To which I say, maybe you shouldn't buy dirty oil. Personally, I'm pouring directly from a clean bottle, not using a dusty bucket to carry oil across the diesel shop from the 255 gal tote. Just make sure you keep track of the foil seal and you're good.

The prefill advocates don't like the time the engine has to run without oil while the filter refills. When I prefill my filter I do it with clean oil. As a bonus, my truck doesn't have an ADBV, so I could, in theory, pour into the inlet side rather than outlet.

I'm going to make a tshirt that says "I prefill my oil filters."

I don't have a cat, so I don't care about their recommendations.

Great post. LOL

 

[4WD]

Been cutting filters for over a decade (don’t post them all) … Many of them had louvres - none looked suspect once you get the best view possible …

 

[D60]

Been cutting filters for over a decade (don’t post them all) … Many of them had louvres - none looked suspect once you get the best view possible …

I wonder about this too. The angle necessary when in the filter may be deceiving. Once you get the tubes in-hand they look far more open

 

[OVERKILL]

I wonder about this too. The angle necessary when in the filter may be deceiving. Once you get the tubes in-hand they look far more open

Here are the ones in one of the EaO's I received that AMSOIL took back:

Here's a Fleetguard in comparison:

The difference is pretty significant. AMSOIL thought so too, that's why they sent me new filters.

 

[Exhaustgases]

no thanks, enough oily mess from their top mounted filter without doing the prefill spill that does arguably nothing.

While Priming could be used a more exact term would be pre-filling the oil filter.

you can prime the oil filter with clear flood mode a totally different process.

Caterpillar suggests prefilling does nothing good, and introduces small possibility of contamination.

LSj, did a test on this some time ago. The results say do pre fill the filter, that is if it sits in the normal gasket pointing up position.

I have always done that. Not only is there essentially an air lock in the filter and media, but also in the oil galleries that are fed from the filter. Prefilling just saves the few seconds that filling the filter may take.

Caterpillar? I spent years working on them and those filters are huge compared to your little car ones. And not just the oil filters but also the stacked huge fuel filters, no prefilling them, then plan on some major time bleeding those old fuel systems back in the day.

Whats this clear flood prime? Do you mean turning the engine parts with no oil pressure to prime the filter?

Introduce contamination. Yeah for the normal give a rip mechanic that doesn't know what clean is.

Oh and for contamination I worry more about oil filter threads with chips in them, and or the whole unit. I'm sure oil filters are not assembled in a clean room like a disk drive is.

 

[Glenda W.]

Here’s an example of a chocked Wix.

 

[D60]

Here’s an example of a chocked Wix.

View attachment 280324

These look like they're punched when flat then rolled like a shipping tube and either crimped or induction welded at the seams (er at least this is how my Purolator looked)

I can't see how it's easier, faster or cheaper to punch louvers vs holes? I wonder why they do this at all? A good machine should punch either with equal ease and speed I'd think.

 

[Snagglefoot]

I searched the net for flowrates of modern oil pumps. The modern hemi engine uses a gerotor pump as do the Chev LS engines. Melling, the manufacturer of after market oil pumps had good data on the LS engines. Basically, flow rate climbs with RPM. The stock LS engine pumps start at around 4 gallon per minute at idle and increase to about 6 gallon per minute at 6000 rpm. The hemi is not much different.

The pressure inside the pump ( not the bypass pressure) can be around 60 psi and is controlled by the spring and plunger which will send fluid back to the intake of the pump (again, nothing to do with the bypass pressure of the filter. ) Melling has designs to increase the flow rates, and also different springs to increase the maximum pressure of the pump. There is also the concept of the two pressure pump settings on Gen 5 LS engines.

Fram publishes bypass pressures of their filters. What I have not found is the characteristic of the poppet valve. If the engine is running at just above idle, the flow rate may be 4 gpm. If something is wrong with the filter the poppet valve opens. The question is what exactly will the pressure differential be as the pump attempts to flow through the cross sectional area. This should be easy to measure on the apparatus that exists to measure differential across filter media. If anyone has found data on that, it would be interesting to see.

 

[OVERKILL]

I searched the net for flowrates of modern oil pumps. The modern hemi engine uses a gerotor pump as do the Chev LS engines. Melling, the manufacturer of after market oil pumps had good data on the LS engines. Basically, flow rate climbs with RPM. The stock LS engine pumps start at around 4 gallon per minute at idle and increase to about 6 gallon per minute at 6000 rpm. The hemi is not much different.

The pressure inside the pump ( not the bypass pressure) can be around 60 psi and is controlled by the spring and plunger which will send fluid back to the intake of the pump (again, nothing to do with the bypass pressure of the filter. ) Melling has designs to increase the flow rates, and also different springs to increase the maximum pressure of the pump. There is also the concept of the two pressure pump settings on Gen 5 LS engines.

Fram publishes bypass pressures of their filters. What I have not found is the characteristic of the poppet valve. If the engine is running at just above idle, the flow rate may be 4 gpm. If something is wrong with the filter the poppet valve opens. The question is what exactly will the pressure differential be as the pump attempts to flow through the cross sectional area. This should be easy to measure on the apparatus that exists to measure differential across filter media. If anyone has found data on that, it would be interesting to see.

Post in thread 'Does the bypass relief valve pressure matter much?'

Nov 15, 2023

An old small block Chevy, one of the few engines where anyone's ever bothered to flow test the oil pump moves it about 2.4 to 2.5gpm at idle (say it's 10 L/m), the pump will max out at 20 to 22gpm at 6,000 crank RPMs,

As @ZeeOSix noted, those numbers don't sound right.

The venerable SBC had a cam driven (half speed) gear pump with a 50psi relief pressure. The LSx engines Zee posted have a crank driven (full speed) pump that's much larger.

The 5.7L HEMI pump, which is also a crank driven gear pump is:
500rpm: 1.90gpm
2,000RPM: 5.08gpm

• OVERKILL

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[I<3oil]

Ram or Fram

Gee, idk who I'd rather believe as to the failure. This is a tough one.

 

[wbwanzer]

We need the OP to come back with Gram's test results.