She did not look at them (yet). Space-wise, it is shockingly close to the Outback. I am not sure if the Mrs will swing for it. She is really looking to do the 50mpg range. Maybe, 40mpg with the right compromises. I think the 31 mpg is a deal-breaker.
Looking at a Hybrids as the main Family Hauler
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Will she listen to reason or has she made her mind up already? A hybrid in your case will give little or no benefit as its best performance is only in urban settings. If you don't mind a bit or anxiety go for electric as now they have a range of over 150 miles, but for my money I'd seriously consider diesel. Mazda is coming out with a diesel for its CX5-7-9 and that's where i'd put my money
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I would delay this purchase until the baby is delivered and her hormones stabilize. The depreciation hit on the 14 Outback alone will be hard to make up even with hybrid MPG.
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AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
A very wise man will establish some boundaries (you did, no FCA etc) then let the Missus pick her own ride. She sounds like a force of nature, not to be trifled with. Sounds like you're handling it skillfully. Who knows, maybe after the birth she'll be over it all. I'd be nudging for larger, with precious cargo doubled now.....
When we went car shopping we went looking for Highlanders and brought home a RAV4. She's still happy 4 years in and it really makes no difference.
When we went car shopping we went looking for Highlanders and brought home a RAV4. She's still happy 4 years in and it really makes no difference.
Originally Posted By: Pelican
Will she listen to reason or has she made her mind up already? A hybrid in your case will give little or no benefit as its best performance is only in urban settings. If you don't mind a bit or anxiety go for electric as now they have a range of over 150 miles, but for my money I'd seriously consider diesel. Mazda is coming out with a diesel for its CX5-7-9 and that's where i'd put my money
Reason, yes... she is very rational about her decision and process but getting something that she does not like "back on the list" is tough.
The hybrid advantage in the city is the big reason here. That is what is killing the Subaru in her mind I think. If she was highway cruising at 30-33mpg that the Outback can get, no issues. It is the constant start-stop downtown that is giving her the low 20s. That combined that the 2-door coupe has become the trip-maker and we can definitely pack for 10cuft of space and have the kids in the back has made her re-think vehicle size.
I would more than likely veto any diesel. I have had Ford/Merc oil burners in my fleet and I will not personally go with a modern diesel. 1 - we live in a mountain valley. NOx and particulates are our major local air pollutant and thus diesels are not the best choice for the local air quality. 2 - Modern diesels are overly complex with minimum advantages for our use. They are better for highway cruising than in-town use. If she was doing the
My family is 420 miles away. Her family is 130 miles and 170 miles away and "over" the mountains. EV would be the way to go BUT while my family has some decent charging areas along the way, hers does not. We have a few "in demand" EV chargers at our work location so we could have no need to charge at home.
Will she listen to reason or has she made her mind up already? A hybrid in your case will give little or no benefit as its best performance is only in urban settings. If you don't mind a bit or anxiety go for electric as now they have a range of over 150 miles, but for my money I'd seriously consider diesel. Mazda is coming out with a diesel for its CX5-7-9 and that's where i'd put my money
Reason, yes... she is very rational about her decision and process but getting something that she does not like "back on the list" is tough.
The hybrid advantage in the city is the big reason here. That is what is killing the Subaru in her mind I think. If she was highway cruising at 30-33mpg that the Outback can get, no issues. It is the constant start-stop downtown that is giving her the low 20s. That combined that the 2-door coupe has become the trip-maker and we can definitely pack for 10cuft of space and have the kids in the back has made her re-think vehicle size.
I would more than likely veto any diesel. I have had Ford/Merc oil burners in my fleet and I will not personally go with a modern diesel. 1 - we live in a mountain valley. NOx and particulates are our major local air pollutant and thus diesels are not the best choice for the local air quality. 2 - Modern diesels are overly complex with minimum advantages for our use. They are better for highway cruising than in-town use. If she was doing the
My family is 420 miles away. Her family is 130 miles and 170 miles away and "over" the mountains. EV would be the way to go BUT while my family has some decent charging areas along the way, hers does not. We have a few "in demand" EV chargers at our work location so we could have no need to charge at home.
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
When it's a "no", it's a NO. Don't even bother to ask why ...
Let her have whatever makes her happy at this point. There are WAY too many other issues to even be thinking about contra arguments ...
Recarro seats are must for me for long hauls. As we age, we become very seat particular. Most are junk.
GOOD LUCK BROTHER!
get yourself a Hybrid Porsche. ;-)
When it's a "no", it's a NO. Don't even bother to ask why ...
Let her have whatever makes her happy at this point. There are WAY too many other issues to even be thinking about contra arguments ...
Recarro seats are must for me for long hauls. As we age, we become very seat particular. Most are junk.
GOOD LUCK BROTHER!
get yourself a Hybrid Porsche. ;-)
I'm curious how this one turns out. What car would satisfy all these conditions?
JC1: A hybrid Porsche would be a good option, but my Porsche requirement is that it have a manual. Actually, since the next Supra will only have an automatic, my next car is likely a 981 Cayman. I will be in the hunt in about 5-6 years to add to my collection. MR2, Ginny, Cayman... oh the DD options. Maybe if Toyota releases the S-FR or MR2 Hybrid, I might get distracted but unless it is a hyperlight and/or mid-engine 'yota.
Ok, mini-update: did some heavy family/car planning. She even watched some Youtube video reviews (I am shocked as she will watch Doug Demuro, but that is about it for my car videos). Her requirements:
1. MPG - 50mpg minimum... and really that is actual MPG that she could get, not advertised mileage so I counting it is either the Prius or Ionic. Otherwise plug-in hybrid with at least 25 mi range.
2. Cargo Space (stroller/dog) - has to be "enough" but more space is not "better"
3. Carseat Space (yes/no according to her personal metric)
4. Heated Seats & Sunroof
5. Hatchback - No Sedans - She is not a sedan person.
The thing driving it is her old Honda Fit. She really wants that fuel economy back. She wants to do the full-blown hybrid (or electric - but the driving to the parents is the limiter there). Somethings are kinda bothering her with the Outback. The CVT... which kinda shocked me. I like it, she doesn't but it is a vague dislike as she did not know that it was the CVT she was hating. Now, the other thing is that if she can't go full 50mpg, she says she will just keep the Outback for a while.
I am trying to send her to the dealerships without me (but with both carseats). Let her install and fiddle with it. Let the dealerl with her "requirements" and then she can report back. She is pathologically opposed to making a decision and has about 5 minutes worth of patience for any "paperwork" side so I have no fear of her buying a car. Muhaha!
Here we go...
Ok, mini-update: did some heavy family/car planning. She even watched some Youtube video reviews (I am shocked as she will watch Doug Demuro, but that is about it for my car videos). Her requirements:
1. MPG - 50mpg minimum... and really that is actual MPG that she could get, not advertised mileage so I counting it is either the Prius or Ionic. Otherwise plug-in hybrid with at least 25 mi range.
2. Cargo Space (stroller/dog) - has to be "enough" but more space is not "better"
3. Carseat Space (yes/no according to her personal metric)
4. Heated Seats & Sunroof
5. Hatchback - No Sedans - She is not a sedan person.
The thing driving it is her old Honda Fit. She really wants that fuel economy back. She wants to do the full-blown hybrid (or electric - but the driving to the parents is the limiter there). Somethings are kinda bothering her with the Outback. The CVT... which kinda shocked me. I like it, she doesn't but it is a vague dislike as she did not know that it was the CVT she was hating. Now, the other thing is that if she can't go full 50mpg, she says she will just keep the Outback for a while.
I am trying to send her to the dealerships without me (but with both carseats). Let her install and fiddle with it. Let the dealerl with her "requirements" and then she can report back. She is pathologically opposed to making a decision and has about 5 minutes worth of patience for any "paperwork" side so I have no fear of her buying a car. Muhaha!
Here we go...
Where is the 50mpg requirement coming from? Honda Fit is a mostly 30mpg car.
I just had the same hankering to buy a hybrid. After all my analysis, I just purchased a 2018 Accord EX hybrid. No experience with it yet as it is being delivered this week.
The advertised mpg is 48. Given the current price of gasoline, the payback period is approximately five years factoring in the price differential over a conventional Accord.
I tend to keep a car for seven to eight years, so it makes economic sense for me. Good luck with your decision!
Don
The advertised mpg is 48. Given the current price of gasoline, the payback period is approximately five years factoring in the price differential over a conventional Accord.
I tend to keep a car for seven to eight years, so it makes economic sense for me. Good luck with your decision!
Don
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Where is the 50mpg requirement coming from? Honda Fit is a mostly 30mpg car.
regular hybrids...
But she rejected the Chevy Volt because of space (It does has a hatch); note: this would have been the "sporty" version since some prius owners switched to it just for the better feeling...
I'm going to guess regular Prius (in the current scifi form) would be out because of space even if again is a hatch
Prius v (the wagon) is only 40-42 (heavy large body on a regular prius)
Nissan leaf does the range anxiety, plus range drops in lower temperatures
She didn't like the niro and the regular sedans....
Plus usually the sunroof comes only in the more "luxury" sub-models....
Ms. FutureDoc is indeed a tough cookie...
Where is the 50mpg requirement coming from? Honda Fit is a mostly 30mpg car.
regular hybrids...
But she rejected the Chevy Volt because of space (It does has a hatch); note: this would have been the "sporty" version since some prius owners switched to it just for the better feeling...
I'm going to guess regular Prius (in the current scifi form) would be out because of space even if again is a hatch
Prius v (the wagon) is only 40-42 (heavy large body on a regular prius)
Nissan leaf does the range anxiety, plus range drops in lower temperatures
She didn't like the niro and the regular sedans....
Plus usually the sunroof comes only in the more "luxury" sub-models....
Ms. FutureDoc is indeed a tough cookie...
Originally Posted By: SJUMBA
I just had the same hankering to buy a hybrid. After all my analysis, I just purchased a 2018 Accord EX hybrid. No experience with it yet as it is being delivered this week.
The advertised mpg is 48. Given the current price of gasoline, the payback period is approximately five years factoring in the price differential over a conventional Accord.
I tend to keep a car for seven to eight years, so it makes economic sense for me. Good luck with your decision!
Don
user JHZR2 has a '15 or '16 Accord Hybrid too....
I just had the same hankering to buy a hybrid. After all my analysis, I just purchased a 2018 Accord EX hybrid. No experience with it yet as it is being delivered this week.
The advertised mpg is 48. Given the current price of gasoline, the payback period is approximately five years factoring in the price differential over a conventional Accord.
I tend to keep a car for seven to eight years, so it makes economic sense for me. Good luck with your decision!
Don
user JHZR2 has a '15 or '16 Accord Hybrid too....
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
JC1: A hybrid Porsche would be a good option, but my Porsche requirement is that it have a manual. Actually, since the next Supra will only have an automatic, my next car is likely a 981 Cayman. I will be in the hunt in about 5-6 years to add to my collection. MR2, Ginny, Cayman... oh the DD options. Maybe if Toyota releases the S-FR or MR2 Hybrid, I might get distracted but unless it is a hyperlight and/or mid-engine 'yota.
Ok, mini-update: did some heavy family/car planning. She even watched some Youtube video reviews (I am shocked as she will watch Doug Demuro, but that is about it for my car videos). Her requirements:
1. MPG - 50mpg minimum... and really that is actual MPG that she could get, not advertised mileage so I counting it is either the Prius or Ionic. Otherwise plug-in hybrid with at least 25 mi range.
2. Cargo Space (stroller/dog) - has to be "enough" but more space is not "better"
3. Carseat Space (yes/no according to her personal metric)
4. Heated Seats & Sunroof
5. Hatchback - No Sedans - She is not a sedan person.
The thing driving it is her old Honda Fit. She really wants that fuel economy back. She wants to do the full-blown hybrid (or electric - but the driving to the parents is the limiter there). Somethings are kinda bothering her with the Outback. The CVT... which kinda shocked me. I like it, she doesn't but it is a vague dislike as she did not know that it was the CVT she was hating. Now, the other thing is that if she can't go full 50mpg, she says she will just keep the Outback for a while.
I am trying to send her to the dealerships without me (but with both carseats). Let her install and fiddle with it. Let the dealerl with her "requirements" and then she can report back. She is pathologically opposed to making a decision and has about 5 minutes worth of patience for any "paperwork" side so I have no fear of her buying a car. Muhaha!
Here we go...
FutureDOC,
I will wait patiently for an update.
Me, I would keep the Outback for the next 5 years and go from there....
Now just trowing it up there, and does not meet some of the criteria but the space:
-Prius V Three: has space for stroller + dog
-Mazda 5 Touring/GranTouring: used in 2+2 configuration has space for stroller + dog, sliding doors, and now it should be cheaper than most offering in its class...
JC1: A hybrid Porsche would be a good option, but my Porsche requirement is that it have a manual. Actually, since the next Supra will only have an automatic, my next car is likely a 981 Cayman. I will be in the hunt in about 5-6 years to add to my collection. MR2, Ginny, Cayman... oh the DD options. Maybe if Toyota releases the S-FR or MR2 Hybrid, I might get distracted but unless it is a hyperlight and/or mid-engine 'yota.
Ok, mini-update: did some heavy family/car planning. She even watched some Youtube video reviews (I am shocked as she will watch Doug Demuro, but that is about it for my car videos). Her requirements:
1. MPG - 50mpg minimum... and really that is actual MPG that she could get, not advertised mileage so I counting it is either the Prius or Ionic. Otherwise plug-in hybrid with at least 25 mi range.
2. Cargo Space (stroller/dog) - has to be "enough" but more space is not "better"
3. Carseat Space (yes/no according to her personal metric)
4. Heated Seats & Sunroof
5. Hatchback - No Sedans - She is not a sedan person.
The thing driving it is her old Honda Fit. She really wants that fuel economy back. She wants to do the full-blown hybrid (or electric - but the driving to the parents is the limiter there). Somethings are kinda bothering her with the Outback. The CVT... which kinda shocked me. I like it, she doesn't but it is a vague dislike as she did not know that it was the CVT she was hating. Now, the other thing is that if she can't go full 50mpg, she says she will just keep the Outback for a while.
I am trying to send her to the dealerships without me (but with both carseats). Let her install and fiddle with it. Let the dealerl with her "requirements" and then she can report back. She is pathologically opposed to making a decision and has about 5 minutes worth of patience for any "paperwork" side so I have no fear of her buying a car. Muhaha!
Here we go...
FutureDOC,
I will wait patiently for an update.
Me, I would keep the Outback for the next 5 years and go from there....
Now just trowing it up there, and does not meet some of the criteria but the space:
-Prius V Three: has space for stroller + dog
-Mazda 5 Touring/GranTouring: used in 2+2 configuration has space for stroller + dog, sliding doors, and now it should be cheaper than most offering in its class...
Power sliding doors are great for kids...
just get a minivan
just get a minivan
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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Where is the 50mpg requirement coming from? Honda Fit is a mostly 30mpg car.
She is looking for an improvement over the Fit. (Note: She will hypermile). We averaged 40mpg (via gas used/receipt tracking) and 44 on the dashboard CPU from 2009-2014. Give her that economy cookie and she chases it. Now, her driving was 80% highway then compared to 80% city now. Unfortunately her car choice and commute happened at about the same time. I think she would have been knocked back down to a 30-ish in the Fit with the current commute but I think the low 22mpg is really taxing her mental economy space.
I did run the numbers for her. A base Ioniq would recoup the transaction cost in just under 5 years with her driving habits, the limited (aka sunroof/bum warmers) will take 8 years. The cheapest "newer upgrade" we have found cost/mile would be a pre-owned '17 Sonata sedan and that would recoup in about 3 years and hold off the other hybrids for nearly a decade. BUT she does not want a sedan.
I have a LEAF/CMax forat work, I tried to convince her that she have a used leaf for cheap but she does not want to have even more cars in our yard.
What I think is that Subaru is missing a target here. The Mrs is mostly agitated by the 22mpg for 18 mile commute. A plug-in hybrid Outback would be perfect for her. Sure, they are releasing the Crosstrek later this week but she is unwilling to "downsize" to that car and only get "meh" hybrid mileage. However, to get that 50mpg, she is willing to forgo about a 30% of the current space.
I am fine keeping the Outback. It would not bother me either way (save the long trips and I don't know how that is affecting her). I do not drive it all that frequently. However, we do tend to default to the Genesis over the Outback unless there is space needs. Other than my sacroiliac/psoas injury making the seats uncomfortable, it has been a great car. It actually has some warranty left in it. CPO with a 7 year/100,000 power train warranty and the CVT warranty extension.
Where is the 50mpg requirement coming from? Honda Fit is a mostly 30mpg car.
She is looking for an improvement over the Fit. (Note: She will hypermile). We averaged 40mpg (via gas used/receipt tracking) and 44 on the dashboard CPU from 2009-2014. Give her that economy cookie and she chases it. Now, her driving was 80% highway then compared to 80% city now. Unfortunately her car choice and commute happened at about the same time. I think she would have been knocked back down to a 30-ish in the Fit with the current commute but I think the low 22mpg is really taxing her mental economy space.
I did run the numbers for her. A base Ioniq would recoup the transaction cost in just under 5 years with her driving habits, the limited (aka sunroof/bum warmers) will take 8 years. The cheapest "newer upgrade" we have found cost/mile would be a pre-owned '17 Sonata sedan and that would recoup in about 3 years and hold off the other hybrids for nearly a decade. BUT she does not want a sedan.
I have a LEAF/CMax forat work, I tried to convince her that she have a used leaf for cheap but she does not want to have even more cars in our yard.
What I think is that Subaru is missing a target here. The Mrs is mostly agitated by the 22mpg for 18 mile commute. A plug-in hybrid Outback would be perfect for her. Sure, they are releasing the Crosstrek later this week but she is unwilling to "downsize" to that car and only get "meh" hybrid mileage. However, to get that 50mpg, she is willing to forgo about a 30% of the current space.
I am fine keeping the Outback. It would not bother me either way (save the long trips and I don't know how that is affecting her). I do not drive it all that frequently. However, we do tend to default to the Genesis over the Outback unless there is space needs. Other than my sacroiliac/psoas injury making the seats uncomfortable, it has been a great car. It actually has some warranty left in it. CPO with a 7 year/100,000 power train warranty and the CVT warranty extension.
You could probably gain back a few mpg's just turning the Subaru into a "plug in hybrid", with a block heater. For whatever reason they seem suck back alot of gas as they warm up. I took a trip to the grocery store on the weekend about 5 miles away on the hwy and averaged somewhere in the low 20's mpg on the way there, engine was at 32F to start. Then on the way back I managed to pull the total trip average up to 29 mpg, so the trip back must've been mid 30's plus.
Warmed up on a 55 road it can start to average 40+mpg.
Warmed up on a 55 road it can start to average 40+mpg.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
...
Other than my sacroiliac/psoas injury making the seats uncomfortable, it has been a great car. ...
[off-topic]
Sacro Wedgy?
Or any addon-pillows?
Hope it helps. Back pain when driving is no fun....
[/off-topic]
...
Other than my sacroiliac/psoas injury making the seats uncomfortable, it has been a great car. ...
[off-topic]
Sacro Wedgy?
Or any addon-pillows?
Hope it helps. Back pain when driving is no fun....
[/off-topic]
Also, rumor out of Japan says the next Prius V will have AWD like the RAV4 Hybrid/NXh and HiHy/RXh. I think AWD is an option on the Prius alpha(which is the JDM version of the V).
However, Toyota might also cannibalize RAV4 Hybrid sales doing that as well - but really a AWD Prius will be more suited to compete against the VW Golf Alltrack/A3 and the Impreza. I'm also sure a few cabbies and Uber drivers will want a AWD hybrid that isn't an SUV or luxury sedan.
However, Toyota might also cannibalize RAV4 Hybrid sales doing that as well - but really a AWD Prius will be more suited to compete against the VW Golf Alltrack/A3 and the Impreza. I'm also sure a few cabbies and Uber drivers will want a AWD hybrid that isn't an SUV or luxury sedan.
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