Well, the good thing is that I will not be driving it. I am keeping my toy cars (Ginny and Mr2)
So, my wife has been thinking the Outback is "overkill". We have a second kid arriving in about 2 weeks... so it is a weird time to be downsizing but "ok". You don't argue with a pregnant mother of a toddler. She will have no patience with anything you have to offer and my life is now considered expendable. Plus Subaru is running a pregnant lady tv spot that has her hooked and rethinking life choices. The Outback is a good car but it is "big" to her with bad MPG. MPG has been semi-horrible this winter (22.5 right now) as she drives it about 15-20 miles a day straight through downtown traffic in the mountains (really kills MPG). Heck, the Ginny is getting 22.8 and that is with me thrashing it (but I drive a bit more reasonably in the winter) She does not really take the interstate that often so a Hybrid is a good choice that keeps coming back up as she needs city MPG. We rarely "need" all the space allotted but we do use a BOB running stroller and have a Hound. So decent cargo area is a big deal. It has to be big enough without overdoing it. She likes hatchbacks/wagons but is nearly pathologically against blocking rear viability, so often there is a lot of wasted space with the wagon. The other thing that is on her mind is that for long trips, we have been defaulting and using the Genesis, not the Outback. I personally find the Outbacks seats to be quite uncomfortable (hip injury after we purchased the car). I loved my 99 OB, but the 2014 is now uncomfortable for me for anything over an hour. My Genesis/MR2, not an issue and I think I need a "firm/harder" seat. The biggest thinking going for the Outback is that I am coded as "essential" personnel. Thus, I report to work in the rain, snow, molten lava flow. So AWD is somewhat useful.
Anyway, she suggested to go car shopping this weekend (yay) and with my "I never stop internet browsing" so it was awesome.
We check out a Lexus CT200H (way too small) and Prius V (liked it but it was too old/well used, but she liked the space). Not sure she want to go used (maybe a lightly touched 2017, but the V's MPG is not stellar for her) Her co-worker has a Prius Prime which she does NOT like. The "soft" hybrid such as the Highlander/RAV4 are out. She is looking for the 45mpg+ and above 50mps the better.
Then we stopped by the Chevy dealership. The Volt/Bolt was too small as well. Really, the Volt was too small in the rear (strange that it feels about as cramped in the back as my Gen Coupe with the same storage space). The Bolt was too expensive and slightly too small. She is worried that the 240mi range is not quite able to get her to/from her parents house in a very rural area of Appalachia.
Next was the Kia dealership as I think she saw a Niro "small SUV" like hybrid but after looking it over, she said "nope". It was a hard no too. Don't know why (I thought she was leaning towards that) but go figure.
Finally, the Hyundai Dealership. She likes the Ioniq. I already knew that she liked it since a car-show back in January but I think she really liked it. She said she has been thinking about it now, not sure about the timing but thinking out it (which is kinda a "buy now?" comment in her book (which she never thinks about cars).
I still want to get her in front of the Camry/Malibu hybrid, but I think that will be a tough sell (having a trunk) as they cost more and get less MPG. She does not like the CMAX and the plug-in Pacifica is out as it is a BelowPAR on my list of banned makes. No FCA for me.
Her previous cars have been: Ford Explorer, Ford Explorer, Honda Fit, and the Subaru Outback. For her, viability is #1 and then MPG is #2. Space is #3 with maneuverability (aka parking) #4. I am actually surprised that the "Outback" has been kinda "meh" for her. She loved my old '99 and I thought the Outback would be a return to form for her SUV background. I *think* she has been missing the Fit and that 22-23mpg isn't helping her thinking.
We are fairly tall (6'3" and 5'9") but thin (runners) and have a 3yo and a infant pending. So "folding up" into a small car is not as big of a deal. Normally it is leg room that is key as I am actually shorter than the Mrs when I sit down (height in my legs). We are looking at it that the kids *should* be fine for the next 10 years without an issue for sizing.
So, is there anything else we should be looking at? The germans are out. I kinda dig the i3 but she hates it. The Kia Soul EV was decent but she just can't do the pure electric thing. Maybe the Fusion Hybrid? I think the Trunk might be too small. 12cuft might not do it despite a decent back seat. I need to get her back on the car lots if she is thinking cars again. When she went from the Explorer to Fit (in 2009) it was kinda a shocker. The Outback was me chasing her a car because she always wanted a Subaru (and she liked my winter car). Dang, it almost looks like two Hyundais and I would have never thought that would ever happen. Me, sure, brand doesn not matter and I like to be a quirky collector of non-selling sports cars but the Mrs is about as mainstream as it gets. I keep thinking to wait for the plug-in hybrids to make it to *this* market a bit better as there are only a few around.
Looking at a Hybrids as the main Family Hauler
- Thread starter FutureDoc
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You are smart to avoid FCA and European junk.
My aunt (not a small person, and she's very picky about interior space and comfort) likes her Niro - she's had it for about a year. But you already said that one was a no. Why?
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oooh,
DOC,
your missus is a tough cookie....
Can you try to find a newer, less miles Prius v?
Also, since going up and down the mountains, that engine may scream a bit...
they stopped making them and the more money making model that replaced them is the RAV4 Hybrid.....
is the hybrid with 45+ - 50+ really the prime factor?
This would actually put you in regular hybrid territory...
I searched the same (wagon+hybrid) and my contenders where Prius v and VW SportWagen. I choose the GSW because of visibility all around and got a slightly used model while the for the same money, Prius V would have been 60-70-k miles...
For AWD capability, VW AllTrack would be a good contender.
Very new to the market is the Buick (Opel) Regal TourX: first year, ect etc...
When it's a "no", it's a NO. Don't even bother to ask why ...
Let her have whatever makes her happy at this point. There are WAY too many other issues to even be thinking about contra arguments ...
Recarro seats are must for me for long hauls. As we age, we become very seat particular. Most are junk.
Originally Posted By: dogememe
You are smart to avoid FCA and European junk.
My aunt (not a small person, and she's very picky about interior space and comfort) likes her Niro - she's had it for about a year. But you already said that one was a no. Why?
Is she really determined to get a hybrid? That narrows the choices some. The new Santa Fe FE is coming out soon. That looks like a decent vehicle.
https://m.hyundaiusa.com/2019-santa-fe/index.html
One thing to mention, kids always get bigger so future proofing might be something to consider.
Better than PriusV mileage for a family hauler is a tough criteria to meet. Although I guess if you're choosing the Genesis for long family trips, you guys must pack light.
Some driving lessons could net you a 25% gain in mileage on the Outback, as the CVT's are capable of amazing mileage but you have to be willing to vary your speed a bit. But good luck with that! My wife isn't interested in getting good mileage through changing her habits either.
I think just wait for a mint PriusV, you'll be able to fit kids bike in the back and the mileage will be pretty good.
DOC,
Would missus hold for this test?
-carry the "basket" with base with you at the next driving test + a changing blankie and test either the back seat for kid#2 space and back/trunk for changing diapers space...
Back pain and a screaming kid may overwrite the hybrid/reduced space in favor of space/taller floorboard......
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Better than PriusV mileage for a family hauler is a tough criteria to meet. Although I guess if you're choosing the Genesis for long family trips, you guys must pack light.
Some driving lessons could net you a 25% gain in mileage on the Outback, as the CVT's are capable of amazing mileage but you have to be willing to vary your speed a bit. But good luck with that! My wife isn't interested in getting good mileage through changing her habits either.
I think just wait for a mint PriusV, you'll be able to fit kids bike in the back and the mileage will be pretty good.
DOC,
I know Missus is pregnant in last semester, but what MiniDOC said/Approved?
All others, we are talking about the kid who approves of the Ginny ...:-) (MiniBITOGer)
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
Downsizing with a second kid on the way doesn't make any sense. We purchased a Forester before our first kid was born, expecting to have at least two kids. With two, the Forester (and Outback, also) are nicely-sized for two kids. With a lot of junk or for long trips, a roof-mounted storage solution is almost a must, but it saves from having to purchase a much larger vehicle, just for some extra storage.
Do some math:
I doubt you'll save enough money on gas, especially in the near-term, to makeup what you'll lose in a trade (lost value, taxes and all other fees on a new vehicle, etc.). 22.5 MPG seems low, and a hybrid will likely produce MUCH better results, based on how you describe her driving patterns, but it actually sounds pretty great for her type of driving, in the winter, for a large wagon!
//
With that said:
If she wants a new car, then all of the above is moot. HOWEVER, I would try not to set yourself up for failure (and the need to trade again some time soon). By this, I mean that you shouldn't downsize too much. Go for the Prius V, even if it costs more. It's still not a very large vehicle, relatively speaking, and the MASSIVE gain in MPG will psychologically make it seem as if you're saving tons of money over the Outback (even if it takes a long time to makeup the cost of the trade, as I mentioned above.)
I'm assuming you've taken all of the stuff you think you'll need for two babies and attempted to stow it all in the new vehicles you're testing, right? Two car seats, stroller, etc. I doubt something like a Kia Soul will allow for anything more than her daily drive, if that, as far as space is concerned. FWIW, I grew up with a POS Tercel, that my mom drove the 4 of us around in. We later got a Aerostar and then a Windstar mini-van, but we couldn't afford that initially. I realize we can make due with what we have; however, why make your life tougher if you can afford to spend a little more on gas?
If you go for some light-hybrid you may be disappointed. In other words, how upset would she be if you traded for something like the Lexus 200h and only ends up achieving mid-30's MPG? Fuelly shows a higher average, of course, but we don't really know exactly how she uses the vehicle, including idle/warmup time, etc., which is commonly done with little kids in the picture, resulting in much reduced MPG, regardless of the vehicle.
Yeah, she is tough and on a hybrid binge. She is on a big downsizing binge too. I am looking at fuel cost rising in the next few years/and she has that feel for that too. She is not a car person but will hypermile.
Basically she wants it "all" --- midium-size, mpg, and cheap. I think that ultimately the Prius V will be out of the running. She likes the space but I can't see her with the Prius Dashboard/Controls long-term. I think she was willing to overlook that for the space but that will be nixed at the final decision. Plus, the 16/17s are still in the "new Hyundai/Kia" price category.
I agree with the future-proofing to a point. 10 years is a long time for her car-owning history. She tends to get something new every 5 years. Realistically, the vehicle will be likely be replaced in 5 years.
Explorer 1: 5 years (wrecked)
Explorer 2: 6 years
Fit: 5 years
Subaru: is now at year 4
AWD makes her feel good (because with the exception of the Fit, it was all she/her family has ever owned in her memory). However, me driving the Ginny around in the snow makes her question it. She does not need AWD and basically refuses to drive in the snow but "I could" need it every so often but I I can do without as well. Getting to work isn't the issue, it is getting home (mountains; downhill to work, uphill to home). Still, snow tires are better than the AWD need most times.
The only hybrid I would even remotely consider as a family hauler is the Highlander Hybrid/Lexus RXh. Both will be pricey, but since so many Lexi are now leased or used as service loaners(in the case of the ES and RX) you might be able to find a deal for one at a dealer as a former service loaner/lease return.
Do you have an ultra-gauge? There seems to be a handy space for it on the dash behind the steering wheel on the Prius...
Then you can at least have a speedometer in the right location.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Yeah, she is tough and on a hybrid binge. She is on a big downsizing binge too. I am looking at fuel cost rising in the next few years/and she has that feel for that too. She is not a car person but will hypermile.
Basically she wants it "all" --- midium-size, mpg, and cheap. I think that ultimately the Prius V will be out of the running. She likes the space but I can't see her with the Prius Dashboard/Controls long-term. I think she was willing to overlook that for the space but that will be nixed at the final decision. Plus, the 16/17s are still in the "new Hyundai/Kia" price category.
I agree with the future-proofing to a point. 10 years is a long time for her car-owning history. She tends to get something new every 5 years. Realistically, the vehicle will be likely be replaced in 5 years.
Explorer 1: 5 years (wrecked)
Explorer 2: 6 years
Fit: 5 years
Subaru: is now at year 4
AWD makes her feel good (because with the exception of the Fit, it was all she/her family has ever owned in her memory). However, me driving the Ginny around in the snow makes her question it. She does not need AWD and basically refuses to drive in the snow but "I could" need it every so often but I I can do without as well. Getting to work isn't the issue, it is getting home (mountains; downhill to work, uphill to home). Still, snow tires are better than the AWD need most times.
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Downsizing with a second kid on the way doesn't make any sense. We purchased a Forester before our first kid was born, expecting to have at least two kids. With two, the Forester (and Outback, also) are nicely-sized for two kids. With a lot of junk or for long trips, a roof-mounted storage solution is almost a must, but it saves from having to purchase a much larger vehicle, just for some extra storage.
Do some math:
I doubt you'll save enough money on gas, especially in the near-term, to makeup what you'll lose in a trade (lost value, taxes and all other fees on a new vehicle, etc.). 22.5 MPG seems low, and a hybrid will likely produce MUCH better results, based on how you describe her driving patterns, but it actually sounds pretty great for her type of driving, in the winter, for a large wagon!
//
With that said:
If she wants a new car, then all of the above is moot. HOWEVER, I would try not to set yourself up for failure (and the need to trade again some time soon). By this, I mean that you shouldn't downsize too much. Go for the Prius V, even if it costs more. It's still not a very large vehicle, relatively speaking, and the MASSIVE gain in MPG will psychologically make it seem as if you're saving tons of money over the Outback (even if it takes a long time to makeup the cost of the trade, as I mentioned above.)
I'm assuming you've taken all of the stuff you think you'll need for two babies and attempted to stow it all in the new vehicles you're testing, right? Two car seats, stroller, etc. I doubt something like a Kia Soul will allow for anything more than her daily drive, if that, as far as space is concerned. FWIW, I grew up with a POS Tercel, that my mom drove the 4 of us around in. We later got a Aerostar and then a Windstar mini-van, but we couldn't afford that initially. I realize we can make due with what we have; however, why make your life tougher if you can afford to spend a little more on gas?
If you go for some light-hybrid you may be disappointed. In other words, how upset would she be if you traded for something like the Lexus 200h and only ends up achieving mid-30's MPG? Fuelly shows a higher average, of course, but we don't really know exactly how she uses the vehicle, including idle/warmup time, etc., which is commonly done with little kids in the picture, resulting in much reduced MPG, regardless of the vehicle.
Lexus ES - That is a good one. Thanks! She was acutally kinda keen on the CT200H but the complete lack of space was a dealbreaker. Might be a bit "high priced" for her, but will see if there is one around. Prices are in the upper 20s for 15MY so it could be a good option.
Oh yeah, she wants a sunroof too.
Originally Posted By: spackard
Get a Volvo hybrid, if you want comfortable seats. The seats are supposed to be very good.
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