Logic behind using 0W30 in a 0W20 vehicle

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Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Shocked at all the nonsense being spouted in this thread. Baseless nonsense. What is the purpose in using a different oil weight? Unless trying to solve a problem that doesnt exist yet, I would use 0w20. Ive never had an issue. Everyone always quotes because of gas mileage..funny how between 5w30 and 0w20..I notice zero difference in mpg..
It is not about YOU it is about the CAFE.


What a tired, lame argument. How about 70% to 90% or wear occurs at start up?
How about You really don't understand the subject do you?


Well, that makes at least two of us, probably more...
 
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
Could be true if you short trip a lot in a real cold country. 50% is a more realistic figure for an average car.

Oddly enough I would think about using an 0 or 5w20 in winter in my old TDI that is specced for an Xw30 or 40, BUT I sure would beef up the anti wear, extreme pressure and anti friction additives with a full can of German made Ceratec. No way I would use it after the winter, or do an extended OCI!


Okay, where do you get that figure of 50%?
 
Originally Posted By: NibbanaBanana
0w-20 is pretty thin for a motor. For a sewing machine, ok. Dinosaur wizz.


It's already alarmingly thin pouring out of the bottle and then it gets even thinner when it heats up. eek!
eek.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Where are all these 0w20 engine failures?
Any one say they were 0w-20 engine failures?
 
For you or me, the half MPG or so that 1.5% represents is nugatory.
You might save a hundred bucks in fuel over 100K, nice but hardly noticeable.
For a manufacturer trying to achieve every possible improvement, 1.5% with nothing more than a different grade of oil is huge.
Does the 0W-20 grade compromise durability as well as allow for greater fuel efficiency?
The best answer is probably that it doesn't since very few vehicles are retired because their engines are worn out. I've never worn an engine out myself. How many have?
The engine will last longer than the practical life of any vehicle whether one uses 0W-10 or 20W-50 in it.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Where are all these 0w20 engine failures?
Any one say they were 0w-20 engine failures?


How about you present some data to show 0w20 is only appropriate for the Arctic. Back up your words with data.

Since a lot of people use 0w20 in non arctic conditions, where are all their engines?
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
For you or me, the half MPG or so that 1.5% represents is nugatory.
You might save a hundred bucks in fuel over 100K, nice but hardly noticeable.
For a manufacturer trying to achieve every possible improvement, 1.5% with nothing more than a different grade of oil is huge.
Does the 0W-20 grade compromise durability as well as allow for greater fuel efficiency?
The best answer is probably that it doesn't since very few vehicles are retired because their engines are worn out. I've never worn an engine out myself. How many have?
The engine will last longer than the practical life of any vehicle whether one uses 0W-10 or 20W-50 in it.


I agree. But what will the self-proclaimed experts argue about?
 
I dont see tons of cars in the scrapyard from using 0w20..typical agenda being pushed by the heavy oil fanboys. i would use what the mfr says to use..at least during the warranty period. Will it make a difference? Probably not.
 
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
It's okay, your 5W-30 shears down to a 20W anyways unless you change it every 3,000 miles...


really ?

Got some evidence in recent UOAs ?

And are you saying that 20s DON'T lose viscosity in service ?

Because that's patently NOT true either.

Swapping one set of unfounded logical fallacies with a new set isn't providing sound argument.
 
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Shocked at all the nonsense being spouted in this thread. Baseless nonsense. What is the purpose in using a different oil weight? Unless trying to solve a problem that doesnt exist yet, I would use 0w20. Ive never had an issue. Everyone always quotes because of gas mileage..funny how between 5w30 and 0w20..I notice zero difference in mpg..
It is not about YOU it is about the CAFE.


What a tired, lame argument. How about 70% to 90% or wear occurs at start up?


What's the point of introducing yet ANOTHER logical Fallacy ?

The old "0W20" gets there quicker was wrong in 101, and wrong when presented from Burlington Ontario, but keeps getting repeated ad nauseum as fact.

how about 75% occurs DURING WARM UP...actually in the period when all of the oil, regardless of grade is circulating, and quite happily.

And choosing 0W20 over 0w30 (or 10W30 in a suitable climate), because you heard on the internet that it improved "start-up wear" is plain wrong.
 
Well, here a fast drive is somewhere in the young to mid eighties with maybe an occasional excursion to higher speeds. These are speeds that hardly tax any decent engine and even the cheapest cars have engines with ample power these days.
OTOH, take a car like our '12 Accord to Europe and run it as hard as local traffic moves and a higher HTHS oil would be required.
Oil grade is as much about operating conditions encountered as it is about engine design.
Here, we can't run hard enough for long enough that anything more than a 0W-20 is required.
The average German car used in this country really doesn't need an HTHS 3.5+ oil either.
Why even VW specs such oils in this country remains a mystery to me.
 
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Lets say its done for CAFE..for 1.5% difference..which is laughable..show me where all the engine failures are or all the issues with 0w20.. seems to me the CAFE reasoning is spouted without there being any proof that 0w20 is "too thin".


Multiple different points in the same sentence.

Read the NHTSA documents regarding CAFE, and they state that reduction in viscosity is the simplest and cheapest means to achieve improved economy, and if a manufacturer chooses to go this route, that they must make every reasonable endeavour to reduce backsliding, the use of other than the tested grade.


Thus grades written on oil caps (most of the world don't have that), and single recommendations in the owners manual (most of the world don't have that either)....

as to 1.5% being laughable, it's measurable in the tests, and is therefore valid.

FEViscosity.jpg



As to the being "too thin"...fluid dynamics demonstrates that the oil film thickness ARE thinner on thinner oil...simple physics.

Is that too thin ?

Can't say, but if the car is going to be trashed before it wears out on EITHER 0W30 or 0W20, then trading life beyond the utilisation period for reduced running costs/emissions/nationwide fuel consumption is clearly worth it.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
It's okay, your 5W-30 shears down to a 20W anyways unless you change it every 3,000 miles...


really ?

Got some evidence in recent UOAs ?


LOL Shannow, why don't you ask for some UOA;s from the "thicker" crowd?

Quote:
And are you saying that 20s DON'T lose viscosity in service ?


Strawman? Can you hear me?

Quote:
Because that's patently NOT true either.


Okay.

Quote:
Swapping one set of unfounded logical fallacies with a new set isn't providing sound argument.


Which one was swapped?
 
Originally Posted By: dblshock
nothing worse than another sheeple adding a qt. of 0/20 1200mi. into his OCI.


Sure, if any one ever knew [censored] you were talking about...
 
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
Could be true if you short trip a lot in a real cold country. 50% is a more realistic figure for an average car.

Oddly enough I would think about using an 0 or 5w20 in winter in my old TDI that is specced for an Xw30 or 40, BUT I sure would beef up the anti wear, extreme pressure and anti friction additives with a full can of German made Ceratec. No way I would use it after the winter, or do an extended OCI!


Okay, where do you get that figure of 50%?


where did you get the 75% and the relationship to viscosity ?

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4048967/75__of_wear_occurs_at_startup.
 
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