List of oil filters with 99% efficiency at 20 microns.

[zray1]

What does OG ultra mean - original generation?

Thanks for the post as well!

OC = Ocean Grown

 

[Enthusiast]

Wasn’t referring to the V8s, mainly all of the 4s and 6s from mid-80s to the end of the Neons. Maybe it’s different where I live, people don’t appear to take care of them? All I know is that following most of the 4-cyl ChryCos during that timeframe was harder to breathe than following the mosquito truck, and there were fewer mosquitos behind those cars!

Just as long as you are not including the 3.3l V6 in that comment (introduce in '90-'10) as those engines were pretty durable and didn't have oil burning issues. The vans that died early were due to the A604 being a poor design.

 

[Bill7]

So from the graph's that Overkill and ZeeOSix posted, it appears that the even the updated Fram Ultra is still the most efficient oil filter for passenger cars? The graps show Fram Ultra is 99.8% efficiency @ 15 micros from that test that was done.

Fram also says that the "updated" (aka cheapened) Fram Ultra has higher efficiency that the wire backed older OG version that was such a darling on BITOG.

 

[OVERKILL]

So from the graph's that Overkill and ZeeOSix posted, it appears that the even the updated Fram Ultra is still the most efficient oil filter for passenger cars? The graps show Fram Ultra is 99.8% efficiency @ 15 micros from that test that was done.

Fram also says that the "updated" (aka cheapened) Fram Ultra has higher efficiency that the wire backed older OG version that was such a darling on BITOG.

But the numbers FRAM published for the old Ultra and the new Ultra don't in any way match the actual tested performance of the old Ultra. Colour me skeptical on their claim that the cheaper to manufacture filter with the cellulose blend media is "better".

 

[Bill7]

But the numbers FRAM published for the old Ultra and the new Ultra don't in any way match the actual tested performance of the old Ultra. Colour me skeptical on their claim that the cheaper to manufacture filter with the cellulose blend media is "better".

Thanks for raising that valid concern.

I was under the impression that the updated (cheapened) Fram Ultra uses a synthetic media which is bonded to a cellulose media.
The cellulose media's main purpose is to firm up and support the synthetic media.
An added benefit was the cellulose "extra" media also can do more filtering that the wire backing that it replaced (obviously since the wire backing can't do any filtering at all). That is how a BITOG post where someone had a chat with Fram Customer service described it.

I read your posts on oil filter media types. Very good reading.
Am I correct in assuming the updated (cheapened) Fram Ultra uses a synthetic media which is bonded to a cellulose media,
or is it a synthetic media bonded to a synthetic blend media?

 

[OVERKILL]

Thanks for raising that valid concern.

I was under the impression that the updated (cheapened) Fram Ultra uses a synthetic media which is bonded to a cellulose media.

Yes, there's a synthetic "topper" layer on top of a cellulose blend backer layer, giving you two layers.

The cellulose media's main purpose is to firm up and support the synthetic media.

The cellulose blend media is probably the same or similar to the TG media. This achieved two things:
1. Allowing the maintaining of the filtration efficiency claim
2. Allowing the deletion of the wire backing, which was a second step, reducing production line efficiency. The cellulose blend backed media can be put on the centre tube the same way as any other filter, which was not the case for the wire backed media.

An added benefit was the cellulose "extra" media also can do more filtering that the wire backing that it replaced (obviously since the wire backing can't do any filtering at all). That is how a BITOG post where someone had a chat with Fram Customer service described it.

Well, there were 4 layers in the wired backed media. Two layers of 2-ply synthetic media. The screen wasn't there to provide any filtration, just to provide the rigidity needed for the structure/integrity the depth filtration synthetic media doesn't have.

I haven't seen any good virgin cut opens posted on here, but the video that was posted, I grabbed this screenshot:

Which shows the thin white synthetic "topper" on the cellulose blend backer.

In comparison, here's the OG Ultra media I C&P'd:

Which is two layers of 2-ply media.

I read your posts on oil filter media types. Very good reading.
Am I correct in assuming the updated (cheapened) Fram Ultra uses a synthetic media which is bonded to a cellulose media,
or is it a synthetic media bonded to a synthetic blend media?

The cellulose is the back layer, the synthetic "topper" is the front layer.

 

[ZeeOSix]

But the numbers FRAM published for the old Ultra and the new Ultra don't in any way match the actual tested performance of the old Ultra. Colour me skeptical on their claim that the cheaper to manufacture filter with the cellulose blend media is "better".

Fram bases their efficiency claim on the avg of two different filter model sizes. IIRC, it was based on 3 filters in the past. The overall ISO efficiency rating of an oil filter is the avg of the starting vs ending efficiency per the ISO test procedure. Takes into account the debris holding factor under increased delta-p near the end of the test when some filters become less efficient. In this example, the avg overall efficiency would be (90+60)÷2 = 75% @ 20μ. A filter needs to be efficient, and also be able to hold already captured debris very well to have an ISO efficiency rating of 99% @ 20μ.

This phenomenon was also seen in Andrew's ISO testing - it's discussed with the data in the long thread of his filter testing. And to add, even though the ISO 454i8-12 procedure is pretty stringent, there's still room to chose a flow rate and debris loading rate which could skew the end results some, especially if a filter's efficiency is more sensitive to the delta-p debris sloughing factor as the filter loads up.

Guess my point is that Fram and Andrew ran separate ISO tests, but could be Fram ran a higher flow and/or a higher loading rate which gave them what they claim. And Fram may also he conservative in their efficiency claims to keep the legal trolls from other filter makers off their backs.

Only way to fully compare would be for an ISO lab to test the old vs new Ultra back to back in the same lab, by the same operator, with the same equipment and procedures and settings. Bring $$$.

 

[OVERKILL]

Fram bases their efficiency claim on the avg of two different filter model sizes. IIRC, it was based on 3 filters in the past. The overall ISO efficiency rating of an oil filter is the avg of the starting vs ending efficiency per the ISO test procedure.

Yep, you and I discussed this before, I'm still bothered by the inaccuracies in the communication from FRAM if it isn't obvious, lol.

Only way to fully compare would be for an ISO lab to test the old vs new Ultra back to back in the same lab, by the same operator, with the same equipment and procedures and settings. Bring $$$.

Well, I've been trying to get a group buy going for this for a while, lol, as I am sure you recall. I wanted to get the EaO tested too, along with the new Ultra.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Given the number of GDI, TGDI, and TMPI engines out these these days and that almost none (read this none) could go to a 20K OCI, I now question why the Ultra and Extra Guard are still around.

If FRAM is intent on cutting production cost/increasing production efficiency, they could kill the UG and EG and march forward with just the Tough Guard.

Though time may paint a different picture, color me unimpressed with the new UG.

 

[Furious]

Given the number of GDI, TGDI, and TMPI engines out these these days and that almost none (read this none) could go to a 20K OCI, I now question why the Ultra and Extra Guard are still around.

If FRAM is intent on cutting production cost/increasing production efficiency, they could kill the UG and EG and march forward with just the Tough Guard.

Though time may paint a different picture, color me unimpressed with the new UG.

Yea that is a good way to lose thousands of customers by taking away one of their best selling line of filters and also dropping below the competition.

 

[kschachn]

Yea that is a good way to lose thousands of customers by taking away one of their best selling line of filters and also dropping below the competition.

Where are you a big user in the past?

 

[Furious]

Where are you a big user in the past?

Was I a big user of FRAM in the past? no, there was a few times FRAM's were used on my vehicles but it was never a consistent thing.

I am however going to be switching from the AC Delco PF47E to the FRAM Ultra 3387A on my Chevy on the next oil change which is April.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Given the number of GDI, TGDI, and TMPI engines out these these days and that almost none (read this none) could go to a 20K OCI, I now question why the Ultra and Extra Guard are still around.

If FRAM is intent on cutting production cost/increasing production efficiency, they could kill the UG and EG and march forward with just the Tough Guard.

Though time may paint a different picture, color me unimpressed with the new UG.

The mileage rating Fram uses is their way of showing and comparing the holding capacity of the different models (EG, PH, XG). On a side note, it may be possible for a Honda with it's OLM and "A/B" filter schedule to get close to a 20K oil filter change.

 

[Furious]

The mileage rating Fram uses is their way of showing and comparing the holding capacity of the different models (EG, PH, XG). On a side note, it may be possible for a Honda with it's OLM and "A/B" filter schedule to get clise to a 20K oil filter change.

I believe it was ETCG who did a 20k interval on a Odyssey and it turned out fine. I personally am against extended intervals but people do it so there is a market for it.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Yea that is a good way to lose thousands of customers by taking away one of their best selling line of filters and also dropping below the competition.

Have you ever used them? If not, keep scrolling...

 

[CarbonSteel]

The mileage rating Fram uses is their way of showing and comparing the holding capacity of the different models (EG, PH, XG). On a side note, it may be possible for a Honda with it's OLM and "A/B" filter schedule to get close to a 20K oil filter change.

I totally get that however, that's akin to using a 12 ft ladder to get out of a 6 ft hole.

I have ran FRAM Ultra's to 15K and beyond but very few people do that--even the most of diehards here have not. With the engine designs today, the engine itself typically will not allow an run that long before the oil is required to be changed. Therefore, FRAM Ultra's in the grand scheme of things is mostly an unused resource.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I have ran FRAM Ultra's to 15K and beyond but very few people do that--even the most of diehards here have not. With the engine designs today, the engine itself typically will not allow an run that long before the oil is required to be changed. Therefore, FRAM Ultra's in the grand scheme of things is mostly an unused resource.

One guys opinion ... others like the headroom. If you think it's a waste, then don't use them. If people like to go overkill, then that's fine by me ... I'm not paying for it.

 

[CarbonSteel]

One guys opinion ... others like the headroom. If you think it's a waste, then don't use them. If people like to go overkill, then that's fine by me ... I'm not paying for it.

Not a point of contention for me, just pointing out the obvious. For 99.999999999% of people (me included at this point), a 10K filter provides more than enough headroom for gasoline engines.

 

[Furious]

Have you ever used them? If not, keep scrolling...

I will scroll however the hell I want to scroll.

Use common sense, my statement is valid.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Not a point of contention for me, just pointing out the obvious. For 99.999999999% of people (me included at this point), a 10K filter provides more than enough headroom for gasoline engines.

Maybe some guys like running (and do run) an Ultra for two 10K OCIs, or three 6-7K OCIs, or four 5K OCIs ... more than one way to use an oil filter to it's max potential. Cuts the cost per OCI of the filter down too.