Lets talk old school. 20w 50
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It's not the preferred fill anywhere in the world.
My Porsche manual lists virtually every oil grade made from 5W-20 to 20W-50 and the conditions including ambient temperature under which each can be used (that's something that's done far less today). Even at ambient temps in excess of 40C a 15W-40 dino is considered viscous enough to fit the bill.
Just because a product is obsolete doesn't been it's not serviceable. A rotary phone is perfectly useable although obsolete.
I know you're a fan of RL, which is why I'm somewhat surprised your Buick GN doesn't get that treatment particularly with a syn advantages in turbo applications.
My Porsche manual lists virtually every oil grade made from 5W-20 to 20W-50 and the conditions including ambient temperature under which each can be used (that's something that's done far less today). Even at ambient temps in excess of 40C a 15W-40 dino is considered viscous enough to fit the bill.
Just because a product is obsolete doesn't been it's not serviceable. A rotary phone is perfectly useable although obsolete.
I know you're a fan of RL, which is why I'm somewhat surprised your Buick GN doesn't get that treatment particularly with a syn advantages in turbo applications.
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
20W-50 dino is an obsolete oil for obsolete engines.
No, it isn't--especially in the motorcycle and racing world.
Really, if you're talking V-twin engines my statement seems to fit the bill perfectly!
In racing applications, I'll go one step further and say ALL dino oil is obsolete.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
20W-50 dino is an obsolete oil for obsolete engines.
No, it isn't--especially in the motorcycle and racing world.
Really, if you're talking V-twin engines my statement seems to fit the bill perfectly!
In racing applications, I'll go one step further and say ALL dino oil is obsolete.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
It's not the preferred fill anywhere in the world.
My Porsche manual lists virtually every oil grade made from 5W-20 to 20W-50 and the conditions including ambient temperature under which each can be used (that's something that's done far less today). Even at ambient temps in excess of 40C a 15W-40 dino is considered viscous enough to fit the bill.
Just because a product is obsolete doesn't been it's not serviceable. A rotary phone is perfectly useable although obsolete.
I know you're a fan of RL, which is why I'm somewhat surprised your Buick GN doesn't get that treatment particularly with a syn advantages in turbo applications.
Are you inferring ALL 50 (and heavier) grade oils are obsolete or just 20w50?
I ask because BMW currently spec's 10w60 and Ford specs 5w50 in engines that are anything but antique.
It's not the preferred fill anywhere in the world.
My Porsche manual lists virtually every oil grade made from 5W-20 to 20W-50 and the conditions including ambient temperature under which each can be used (that's something that's done far less today). Even at ambient temps in excess of 40C a 15W-40 dino is considered viscous enough to fit the bill.
Just because a product is obsolete doesn't been it's not serviceable. A rotary phone is perfectly useable although obsolete.
I know you're a fan of RL, which is why I'm somewhat surprised your Buick GN doesn't get that treatment particularly with a syn advantages in turbo applications.
Are you inferring ALL 50 (and heavier) grade oils are obsolete or just 20w50?
I ask because BMW currently spec's 10w60 and Ford specs 5w50 in engines that are anything but antique.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Actually,Caterham would be implying. You would be the one inferring.
Sorry, I should have clarified: I stated inferred because I felt he was drawing the conclusion that 20w50 (and potentially other 50-weight oils, hence my question) was obsolete because it was not specified by the manufacturers he cited.
Hence I brought forth some examples that 50-weights were still used in NA as counter-evidence (though admittedly not in the 20w50 variety).
Actually,Caterham would be implying. You would be the one inferring.
Sorry, I should have clarified: I stated inferred because I felt he was drawing the conclusion that 20w50 (and potentially other 50-weight oils, hence my question) was obsolete because it was not specified by the manufacturers he cited.
Hence I brought forth some examples that 50-weights were still used in NA as counter-evidence (though admittedly not in the 20w50 variety).
Hi,
WarDawg - Lubricants with a 20W-50 viscosity were developed in 1958-9 especially for the Issigonis BMC (Austin-Morris) Mini (850). This new viscosity was required to the integrated engine/gearbox package with its shearing forces and the the type of synchro devices used at the time - and the lack of engine unit sealing! Anybody that used Castrolite or Castrol XL in these first Series engines quickly learned their lesson!
Duckhams were first on the market followed by Castrol. OCIs were around 1000 miles!!!
20W-50 was quite rapidly taken on board as a "fix it" for poor engine designs and the poor quality lubricants sold at the time. It has filled many gaps over the last 51 years!
Porsche issued a WSM "Not to be used below -15C" caution 28 or more years ago about using 20W-50 viscosity lubricants
IMO it will have a place well into the future but I doubt if the gradual fall off in volumes sold will attract much "new" development. Perhaps we will see more SAE50 lubricants such as 0W-50 (5W-50 (M1 now) and 10W-50 appear.
Perhaps the 20W-50 viscosity lubricant will gradually fall into becoming a "boutique" product over time
WarDawg - Lubricants with a 20W-50 viscosity were developed in 1958-9 especially for the Issigonis BMC (Austin-Morris) Mini (850). This new viscosity was required to the integrated engine/gearbox package with its shearing forces and the the type of synchro devices used at the time - and the lack of engine unit sealing! Anybody that used Castrolite or Castrol XL in these first Series engines quickly learned their lesson!
Duckhams were first on the market followed by Castrol. OCIs were around 1000 miles!!!
20W-50 was quite rapidly taken on board as a "fix it" for poor engine designs and the poor quality lubricants sold at the time. It has filled many gaps over the last 51 years!
Porsche issued a WSM "Not to be used below -15C" caution 28 or more years ago about using 20W-50 viscosity lubricants
IMO it will have a place well into the future but I doubt if the gradual fall off in volumes sold will attract much "new" development. Perhaps we will see more SAE50 lubricants such as 0W-50 (5W-50 (M1 now) and 10W-50 appear.
Perhaps the 20W-50 viscosity lubricant will gradually fall into becoming a "boutique" product over time
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3 pages of posts, and no one knew Ford never mae a 455 engine??
amateurs
Steve
amateurs
Steve
No one said Ford made a 455 engine. You can shave the heads of a Ford 460 to turn it into a 455, did it on my old Gran Torino. Chevy does not make a 383 either but there are a lot of them out there.
Amateurs indeed.
Amateurs indeed.
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Shaving the heads doesn't change the displacement at all. What do you mean?
Hi,
surely it is in everybody's interests to keep the Thread on the Topic
surely it is in everybody's interests to keep the Thread on the Topic
Forgot to mention I also had to replace the pistons on that 460 to make it a 455 and bump the CR to 11.5:1
Doug is right about staying on topic. PM me if you want more info.
Doug is right about staying on topic. PM me if you want more info.
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Forgot to mention I also had to replace the pistons on that 460 to make it a 455 and bump the CR to 11.5:1
Doug is right about staying on topic. PM me if you want more info.
Still won't make it a 455 bud, sorry. You'd need to reduce your stroke to change the displacement in that manner.
However one could likely create a 455 from a 427, 428 or 429 via a mild stroke increase, bore increase or a combination of the two.
Forgot to mention I also had to replace the pistons on that 460 to make it a 455 and bump the CR to 11.5:1
Doug is right about staying on topic. PM me if you want more info.
Still won't make it a 455 bud, sorry. You'd need to reduce your stroke to change the displacement in that manner.
However one could likely create a 455 from a 427, 428 or 429 via a mild stroke increase, bore increase or a combination of the two.
azsynthetic - Shaving the heads does not change the engine's size.
With the heads on or off, the cylinders still displace the same volume.
With the heads on or off, the cylinders still displace the same volume.
hahaha, this turned over fast! The displacement change with a head swap was novel at least.
Anyways, back on topic: 20W-50 is not dead yet.
Big HP motors set up with clearances appropriate for it are still being built. I still have a blown big block chevy in a boat that uses it. Anything lighter gets used too rapidly.
It works well in temperate climates.
We also use it in fleet trucks as they get old and begin using oil. Some have had a new lease on life after a couple hundred thousand miles of hard use, so 20W-50 still has its fans!
Anyways, back on topic: 20W-50 is not dead yet.
Big HP motors set up with clearances appropriate for it are still being built. I still have a blown big block chevy in a boat that uses it. Anything lighter gets used too rapidly.
It works well in temperate climates.
We also use it in fleet trucks as they get old and begin using oil. Some have had a new lease on life after a couple hundred thousand miles of hard use, so 20W-50 still has its fans!
from the original post
Loc: NC I grew up in a big V8 family My dad would use nothing but Castrol oil 20w 50 in these engines. These was Chevy 400SB built up and Ford 390's and Ford 455 and several more.
Loc: NC I grew up in a big V8 family My dad would use nothing but Castrol oil 20w 50 in these engines. These was Chevy 400SB built up and Ford 390's and Ford 455 and several more.
Originally Posted By: steve20
from the original post
Loc: NC I grew up in a big V8 family My dad would use nothing but Castrol oil 20w 50 in these engines. These was Chevy 400SB built up and Ford 390's and Ford 455 and several more.
I had a typo. My family had nothing but muscle engines. My brother had a 455 olds in a 66 ford pick up. My bad... I seen them all, 360 390's all various FE motors. Dad had a tough ole early 70 or 71 Grand Torino Sport with a pretty bad 351 Cleveland in it. My bro totaled the 66 and busted the 455 engine hitting a pole . He's got another 66 Ford truck with a 428 or 429 he got out of a Galaxy 500 GBI ( Georgia Bureau of Investigation ) ( Cop car ) . Castrol 20w 50 was all that was ran in any of them.... WarDawg
from the original post
Loc: NC I grew up in a big V8 family My dad would use nothing but Castrol oil 20w 50 in these engines. These was Chevy 400SB built up and Ford 390's and Ford 455 and several more.
I had a typo. My family had nothing but muscle engines. My brother had a 455 olds in a 66 ford pick up. My bad... I seen them all, 360 390's all various FE motors. Dad had a tough ole early 70 or 71 Grand Torino Sport with a pretty bad 351 Cleveland in it. My bro totaled the 66 and busted the 455 engine hitting a pole . He's got another 66 Ford truck with a 428 or 429 he got out of a Galaxy 500 GBI ( Georgia Bureau of Investigation ) ( Cop car ) . Castrol 20w 50 was all that was ran in any of them.... WarDawg
I noticed the 'Ford 455' remark and just let it slide. Typo, or whatever.....
I don't buy into the '20W-50 is the devil' argument, either. In very warm, southern climates, I'd imagine it will work fine for thousands of miles, as it has.
It just doesn't work very well in colder norther climates for much of the year...but even THAT isn't true. A 20W oil is cold-crank tested down to -15C. That means it could theoretically be used in a lot of Canada for all months of the year except December, January, and February. In most places, it's above -15C the rest of the year....
I don't buy into the '20W-50 is the devil' argument, either. In very warm, southern climates, I'd imagine it will work fine for thousands of miles, as it has.
It just doesn't work very well in colder norther climates for much of the year...but even THAT isn't true. A 20W oil is cold-crank tested down to -15C. That means it could theoretically be used in a lot of Canada for all months of the year except December, January, and February. In most places, it's above -15C the rest of the year....
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Forgot to mention I also had to replace the pistons on that 460 to make it a 455 and bump the CR to 11.5:1
Doug is right about staying on topic. PM me if you want more info.
Still won't make it a 455 bud, sorry. You'd need to reduce your stroke to change the displacement in that manner.
However one could likely create a 455 from a 427, 428 or 429 via a mild stroke increase, bore increase or a combination of the two.
Since no one PM me for more info I will explain it here. The old 1975 460 has a 8:1 CR and was pretty worn out. The machine shop couldn't do .060 over for all cylinders so they squared the deck and bored it out for a liner. The liner was the reason for the reduction in displacement. I have to get a new set of pistons as the result. They also shaved the head to increase the CR. I was trying to build a Starsky & Hutch Gran Torino. It was a waste of money now that I think about it.
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Forgot to mention I also had to replace the pistons on that 460 to make it a 455 and bump the CR to 11.5:1
Doug is right about staying on topic. PM me if you want more info.
Still won't make it a 455 bud, sorry. You'd need to reduce your stroke to change the displacement in that manner.
However one could likely create a 455 from a 427, 428 or 429 via a mild stroke increase, bore increase or a combination of the two.
Since no one PM me for more info I will explain it here. The old 1975 460 has a 8:1 CR and was pretty worn out. The machine shop couldn't do .060 over for all cylinders so they squared the deck and bored it out for a liner. The liner was the reason for the reduction in displacement. I have to get a new set of pistons as the result. They also shaved the head to increase the CR. I was trying to build a Starsky & Hutch Gran Torino. It was a waste of money now that I think about it.
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