Larger Luxury Sedans

[d00df00d]

The EPA is on everyone's backsides. But that's not what's holding them back. Their engines are fine, and have been for a long time. Their problems have been interiors, ergonomics, and chassis dynamics.

The Big Three just fell behind for too long. They are coming back. It'll take time but they'll get there for sure.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

completely ignoring the cars track success. Ever seen one? They are very low volume cars, they don't make millions of any SRT model. Mid 12's in the quarter mile with 180 mph+ top speed and great hwy economy now with MDS in the 6.4. And they out brake SPORTS cars! Excuse me, the competition is a little thin unless you are dropping BIG coin.


If they get such great fuel economy why is there a gas guzzler tax? 14/23 is not great at all. And for the $60k you could get just about anything and tune it and be out ahead.

There are guys with tunes on SHO's and Flexes that are hanging with Vettes on the drag strip (Look up Ecobrick Bob) . Not bad for something that weighs as much as an F150. They both need a little help in the handling department but that too can be fixed cheaply.

There is something to be said about a warranty and having it done from the factory but if it were me commuting 120 miles a day in something that is lucky to get 23 on the highway (and 14 in town) is not a good idea. At least with the Taurus I get 26 or so on the highway and around 20 in town. Not great but liveable for me.

For the OP, I'd definitely look at the Infiniti M and maybe even G - they are probably one of the best driving luxury cars in their price ranges. The G is basically a 4 door 370Z.


I have raced many an egoboast at the track. The tuned ones can stay with me, but only just. Always, the faster we go the weaker they run. Start from 60 mph and while they are building boost I am gone. No egoboast I've ever seen ran 180 mph even downhill with a tailwind. The newer SRT8 models are a bit stronger on the top and WAY stronger on the bottom. Expect mid 12's and 112+ trap speed. Very rare in a refined luxury sedan at this price point.

I wouldn't trust a tuned EB around the corner for reliability, ramping up the boost is so much fun till it goes boom. The braking and chassis issues are legion, this is simply NOT a high performance car. Nice luxo cruiser with some guts.

I never was concerned with fuel economy, but note that my car has averaged over 17 including my track days. That's virtually all in town. It easily beats the EPA numbers if you light foot it, and the 6.4 engines have variable cam timing and multi displacement system, which yields really nice highway numbers. This next year or so the new ZF 8 speed comes on line and all the numbers get much better.

I can certainly understand someone not liking the SRT8. It's a lot of car with a very small target audience. And you won't see one in every parking spot either. But it remains one of the top picks in a luxury high performance sedan for the money.

 

[surfstar]

Actually, I'd 100% get the Tesla.

 

[d00df00d]

^ That's a Fisker. Totally different car.

 

[MCompact]

One of my fellow instructors brought his SHO(equipped with the so-called "Performance Package") company car to Putnam last year. After five laps he came into the pits with the brakes smoking so bad that I thought that the pads were on fire. Methinks that Ford should have placed a call to Brembo.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Does anyone have any opinion on the AWD options from BMW, Infiniti, Jaguar?

Those who test drive the A7 say the Quattro helps, so I'm wondering whether to consider these in my short list when I go for test drives.


IMHO the best AWD system is Audi.

Last G35 or whatever its called I drove was very RWD biased and in the snow couldn't keep up with an A6. But that was a few years ago.

BMW's X drive seems to be OK, but I wouldn't buy it I'd get the RWD and just take out the Silverado in bad weather.

 

[surfstar]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
^ That's a Fisker. Totally different car.

google image search!
I remember seeing one of these outside an BJs restaurant last year - looked [censored] good.

The Tesla website has me sold, though!

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: whip
What about the Maserati Quatroport? Ferrari engine in a beautiful car for a lot less money.


Oh forgot about this.

Amazing cars, but when my buddy tried to buy a slightly used one his Italian car mechanic came up with a $5k list of stuff needed on every used one he looked at. He has the coupe with the same motor and its been a pretty solid car.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy


BMW's X drive seems to be OK, but I wouldn't buy it I'd get the RWD and just take out the Silverado in bad weather.


Ditto; the AWD BMW sedans/coupes are dumbed-down versions of their RWD cars- to appeal to the hopelessly inept drivers who think RWD cars can only be driven in dry weather on perfectly straight roads. My wife passed the X3 off to our 18 year old son(it WAS good at driving over small trees and traversing washed out roads) and bought the E90 and a set of dedicated winter wheels/tires.

 

[Cujet]

I own and drive a jaguar X-type, plenty of seat time in the S type and the various R badged jags. Universally, they are tuned for passionate drivers. Not the fastest or the best handling or the hardest stopping, , but always a solid competitor to BMW's typical offerings. It's hard to quantify a modern jaguar, other than to say "they agree with me" and I like driving them. Especially the R's.

But I have to admit my jag at 130k miles has been as reliable as expected. Not exactly maintenance free. But certainly not expensive either.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
One of my fellow instructors brought his SHO(equipped with the so-called "Performance Package") company car to Putnam last year. After five laps he came into the pits with the brakes smoking so bad that I thought that the pads were on fire. Methinks that Ford should have placed a call to Brembo.


The 2010-12 had brakes that were not up to the task. I believe the fixed it in 13. I know they got bigger rotors all around and better calipers and master cylendars.

 

[Spazdog]

Meh....

The Acura SH-AWD preceded the Audi in torque vectoring and the only thing that is certain is that the Audi Quattros are more expensive.
The EVO X's S-AWC is pretty far up there (but it's still a Mitsubishi...It's not an Audi on the interior)
The GT-R is weird with it's parallel driveshafts, but it works. Like it or not, the GT-R is a supercar killer.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Ditto; the AWD BMW sedans/coupes are dumbed-down versions of their RWD cars- to appeal to the hopelessly inept drivers who think RWD cars can only be driven in dry weather on perfectly straight roads. My wife passed the X3 off to our 18 year old son(it WAS good at driving over small trees and traversing washed out roads) and bought the E90 and a set of dedicated winter wheels/tires.

Couldn't agree more! One outing with winter tires was enough to make me swear off all-seasons no matter what car I get... and if I'm going to have two sets of tires, I see no reason to go with AWD unless there's an inescapable need to traverse huge snow drifts or something.

Regarding BMW's AWD offerings, there's a bit of irony: Apparently, in the 6-Series Gran Coupe, the X-Drive models get hydraulic steering while the RWD models are stuck with the electric power steering. Why they gave the better steering to the worse car, I have no idea...

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d

Regarding BMW's AWD offerings, there's a bit of irony: Apparently, in the 6-Series Gran Coupe, the X-Drive models get hydraulic steering while the RWD models are stuck with the electric power steering. Why they gave the better steering to the worse car, I have no idea...


I think that it has to do with the packaging of the xDrive mechanicals.

 

[d00df00d]

Well yeah, presumably.

I guess what I should have said is that I don't understand why they reserved the better steering for the worst car -- in other words, why the better car doesn't have it, too.

Then again, I don't understand why ANY BMW got EPS before it was perfected, so...

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
One of my fellow instructors brought his SHO(equipped with the so-called "Performance Package") company car to Putnam last year. After five laps he came into the pits with the brakes smoking so bad that I thought that the pads were on fire. Methinks that Ford should have placed a call to Brembo.


I'm surprised he made 5 laps. Even the new updated brakes are only a small improvement, the car is still way too heavy and fast for its own brakes. That's the penalty for hauling around another set of running gear all the time (awd).

A pad change makes a big difference on the SHO but even the standard Brembo package on my car which is much lighter still gets a workout on a road course. Road hugging weight is something you pay for every time you drive with increased wear and tear on everything.

The average commuter will never know. I thank God every day that I don't live where I have the "need" for awd on any car.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: MCompact
One of my fellow instructors brought his SHO(equipped with the so-called "Performance Package") company car to Putnam last year. After five laps he came into the pits with the brakes smoking so bad that I thought that the pads were on fire. Methinks that Ford should have placed a call to Brembo.


I'm surprised he made 5 laps. Even the new updated brakes are only a small improvement, the car is still way too heavy and fast for its own brakes. That's the penalty for hauling around another set of running gear all the time (awd).

A pad change makes a big difference on the SHO but even the standard Brembo package on my car which is much lighter still gets a workout on a road course. Road hugging weight is something you pay for every time you drive with increased wear and tear on everything.

The average commuter will never know. I thank God every day that I don't live where I have the "need" for awd on any car.


The limiting factor on my B7 press car was the tires. Motorsport Ranch is a track with several hard lefts and it really chewed the right front PSS up...

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^that's unusual for the German suspensions as the typically tilt the tire hard as it turns.

I have always been very surprised at my tire wear as it remains very even and I get good tire life even at the track.

Perhaps the pressures were off or the alignment was screwed up or something. Publicity beaters take a whipping with all the different drivers wailing on them!

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog

Meh....

The Acura SH-AWD preceded the Audi in torque vectoring and the only thing that is certain is that the Audi Quattros are more expensive.
The EVO X's S-AWC is pretty far up there (but it's still a Mitsubishi...It's not an Audi on the interior)
The GT-R is weird with it's parallel driveshafts, but it works. Like it or not, the GT-R is a supercar killer.


Audi gas done AWD since before Acura existed.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: MCompact
One of my fellow instructors brought his SHO(equipped with the so-called "Performance Package") company car to Putnam last year. After five laps he came into the pits with the brakes smoking so bad that I thought that the pads were on fire. Methinks that Ford should have placed a call to Brembo.


I'm surprised he made 5 laps. Even the new updated brakes are only a small improvement, the car is still way too heavy and fast for its own brakes. That's the penalty for hauling around another set of running gear all the time (awd).

A pad change makes a big difference on the SHO but even the standard Brembo package on my car which is much lighter still gets a workout on a road course. Road hugging weight is something you pay for every time you drive with increased wear and tear on everything.

The average commuter will never know. I thank God every day that I don't live where I have the "need" for awd on any car.


The limiting factor on my B7 press car was the tires. Motorsport Ranch is a track with several hard lefts and it really chewed the right front PSS up...


Meh the B7 doesn't do much for me. The interior is normal its not really upgraded like on an AMG.

Also Motortrend dyno tested one and it was way down on the advertised HP.

The Audi S8 munched it in acceleration.

BMW doesn't do over $100k cars well, its not their specialty.