Lake Speed Jr video - Ignore Factory oil specifications!

[picklyrickly1073]

Weird people here, instead of being happy that someone with a decent sized following is spreading the same message you do on the forum people are attacking the guy or just sticking their head in the sand because apparently not listening to a YouTuber is some kind of superiority flex

 

[kschachn]

Thanks pickly.

 

[DirectRejection]

Definitely dated, but my 2000 Silverado 4.8 Pushrod V8 was very happy on VWB 5W30 and 5k mile OCIs.

Zero oil consumption and smooth performance for 300k miles.

Always scrutinize your engine design and driving conditions.

 

[Cujet]

He is unwatchable to me.
I’m with you @Pablo about this click bait clown. The only thing surprising here is the cult following he seems to have, even right here on BITOG.

As an aviation professional, and prior automotive professional, with more classroom and video training than God himself, I must say that not all presenters are 'listenable' and often the 'different' ones are beyond annoying to some folks.

I don't have the same issue with PF or LSJr that others do, maybe my tolerance level is set 8 or 9. I can listen to them without difficulty. I do find SOME of what they present of value, and clearly recognize errors or omissions with many of these videos, including glaring errors from every nerd's fav, Engineering Explained.

Watch these videos if you want, or not. It prob will not make much difference in your life. Just remember some information is valid.

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

I found it interesting that he carefully worded the wear statement:

“Just because you increase the viscosity of the oil doesn’t mean you’re getting better engine protection….not every time does that increase in viscosity equate to lower wear in the used oil samples.”

There would seem to be some discontinuity with that statement and the selling of UOA’s. UOA results don’t seem to be precise or accurate enough to make a wear determination in an uncontrolled environment such as that in which we operate most vehicles. Guy has to make a buck though, and I still do UOA for entertainment/trend monitoring including through his lab.

LSJ seems to advocate for comparing oil effectiveness through UOA. I’ve been told on here that it would take something around 30 UOA’s on an engine/oil combo to even approach a useful data set. That would take 10 years for many, and even then the conclusion you’d arrive at would probably be that there is no discernible difference between oils, if Blackstone is to be believed.

 

[buster]

I found it interesting that he carefully worded the wear statement:

“Just because you increase the viscosity of the oil doesn’t mean you’re getting better engine protection….not every time does that increase in viscosity equate to lower wear in the used oil samples.”

LSJ seems to subscribe and advocate for comparing oil effectiveness through UOA. I’ve been told on here that it would take something around 30 UOA’s on an engine/oil combo to even approach a useful data set. That would take 10 years for many.

It's like a hand/glove fit. It's going to vary by engine. And you can have low to high within a given grade too. I don't look at differences in ppm in UOAs as being that meaningful.

For example, if oil A shows Fe wear to be 30ppm over 8 consecutive runs, then you switch to oil B and it drops to 15ppm over 8 consecutive runs, you could argue that oil B is providing better wear. But it may not be significant enough where you'd ever notice a difference over the life of the engine. Another hypothetical scenario would be oil A is keeping rings cleaner, while showing a bit more wear, than oil B which is providing good wear but less cleanliness. Lot of variables to consider.

 

[OVERKILL]

I found it interesting that he carefully worded the wear statement:

“Just because you increase the viscosity of the oil doesn’t mean you’re getting better engine protection….not every time does that increase in viscosity equate to lower wear in the used oil samples.”

There would seem to be some discontinuity with that statement and the selling of UOA’s. UOA results don’t seem to be precise or accurate enough to make a wear determination in an uncontrolled environment such as that in which we operate most vehicles. Guy has to make a buck though, and I still do UOA for entertainment/trend monitoring including through his lab.

LSJ seems to subscribe and advocate for comparing oil effectiveness through UOA. I’ve been told on here that it would take something around 30 UOA’s on an engine/oil combo to even approach a useful data set. That would take 10 years for many, and even then the conclusion you’d arrive at would probably be that there is no discernible difference between oils, if Blackstone is to be believed.

Yup, when you are in the business...

Terry Dyson used to "read the tea leaves" on UOA's as well, as that was an income stream for him, along with recommending RLI oils.

The statement should have read:

"Just because you increase the viscosity of the oil doesn't mean you're getting better engine protection...not every time does that increase in viscosity translate to lower wear in use."

 

[OVERKILL]

It's like a hand/glove fit. It's going to vary by engine. And you can have low to high within a given grade too. I don't look at differences in ppm in UOAs as being that meaningful.

For example, if oil A shows Fe wear to be 30ppm over 8 consecutive runs, then you switch to oil B and it drops to 15ppm over 8 consecutive runs, you could argue that oil B is providing better wear. But it may not be significant enough where you'd ever notice a difference over the life of the engine. Another hypothetical scenario would be oil A is keeping rings cleaner, while showing a bit more wear, than oil B which is providing good wear but less cleanliness. Lot of variables to consider.

You could, but it would be disingenuous IMHO. It simply showed a higher concentration of iron in the narrow range observed by spectrography, what that distribution looks like outside that range, we have no idea, nor do we know this is as a result of corrosion, chemical chelation, more aggressive AW chemistry that displaces more surface iron atoms...etc.

I seem to have also been the only one who was concerned about the major discrepancy in viscosity during the 0W-40 shootout between the spec for FS, and what the VOA showed, which I think reinforces the healthy skepticism of individual UOA results and fits with my own position, having had virgin numbers for a product handy (thanks to Dave) which resulted in the request for a re-test, where additive levels all increased. And I'm just one guy, so how does that apply more broadly? This goes back to @2.7ecoboostFordBronco's point about statistically significant sampling.

 

[Bjornviken]

Companies making inferior products and selling them without testing (relying on us to be the testers)....then abandoning said shabby products expecting us to just buy another.

It's not that complicated.

Until customer stops buying them.Then they get bail out and repeat the cycle

 

[thescreensavers]

Companies making inferior products and selling them without testing (relying on us to be the testers)....then abandoning said shabby products expecting us to just buy another.

It's not that complicated.

This isn't the 80s, All OEMs do durability testing and level of engineering these days is much much better. How they act on defects is the business side of things which yea can be cut throat.

If you took a team of 15 people and had them do real world testing for 30 days that's 450 days of testing. Once the car is selling to the public 450 people will take 1 day to reach the same equivalent hours, things may pop up.

Manufacturing is difficult from engines to aerospace hardware things happen. Only thing you can do is learn and move forward. Toyota and GM are both claiming mfg issues leading to failure, now if that's a cover story I think that can be debated.

 

[Bjornviken]

A whole lot of jealous folks here that wish they could harness their keyboard knowledge posted here daily for money like LSJR does on YT but it's easier to trash a genuine motoroil "nerd" putting out some decent content that is at a level most normal people can synthesize. Monetizing on YT is hard and without catchy titles to get folks to watch, there is no point. See my channel as an example...I'll be lucky doing BITOG-approved videos that are short/basic to ever see a dollar for all my time spent trying to help folks out with info sharing...I am stuck in a forever limbo of watch hours that do slowly go up over time os maybe one of these days I'll see that $20/mos check....but I diagress. It's just an easy way to share things across multiple platforms for me.

The issue at hand is one of poor design, not "CAFE thin oils". One only needs to look at the majority of vehicles sold today/on the road in the U.S. today running on 20 grade without a hitch. The 40 grade switch here is a bandaid to cover up a poor design. Do we actually know if the 40 grade from the factory would have changed this issue? Answer = no.

The 10w-60 didn't help BMW either with their bearing issues

 

[Zee09]

I'm sure this guy (Lake Speed Jr) is more intelligent than I am regarding many things. With that said, I watched one of his videos, and he poured a new quart of oil into the engine to flush the oil pan after draining the used oil out. I checked out and never went back.

I seen that and laughed because I did the same when I was 17 years old...seriously...ain't done it since...

 

[Zee09]

Weird people here, instead of being happy that someone with a decent sized following is spreading the same message you do on the forum people are attacking the guy or just sticking their head in the sand because apparently not listening to a YouTuber is some kind of superiority flex

I joke but I respect people's efforts and I make money why shouldn't they. Jealousy usually is the culprit.
People poo poo everything because in their minds they are the star. No I did not mention @AutoMechanic
Always YT drama here and even the posters of said videos get beaten too

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

The summary of this video, which I am deriving from members here, is “Duh.” He is unwatchable to me.

Don’t we already know this?

Honestly, I do not get the Fan-boyism from members here saying it was “exciting” and we should “listen to him.” He didn’t say anything we don’t already know.

I’m with you @Pablo about this click bait clown. The only thing surprising here is the cult following he seems to have, even right here on BITOG. Baffling to me.

People are drawn to what confirms their bias.

 

[Kira]

How they act on defects is the business side of things which yea can be cut throat.

Telling customers to use the wrong oil and be cut throat when engines die.....and I'm being unreasonable?

 

[JAG]

This post is about using UOAs to quantify wear rate. Combining elemental UOA analysis and the PQ Index results, the wear particle size issue is greatly reduced. PQ index applies only to iron. Assuming lab errors are small, having elemental and PQ index results provides a fairly accurate quantification of total iron concentration. Particles trapped in the filter, on magnets, or somewhere in the engine, or expelled into the exhaust cause the measured wear to go in the direction of underestimation.
https://www.techenomics.net/2014/02/24/pq-index-what-does-it-mean-2/

Lab errors do occur, so multiple samples over time should be done to increase statistical significance. Also, stick with the same (good) lab. As for me, I don’t do UOAs because I’m not willing to play the game of seeking an oil that seems to yield less wear.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

When one conveys information, if they include info the person listing to already knows then they insult that person's intelangence. If they begin talking about a subject at a level that requires a background of knoledge that the person listening does not have they loose the attention of that listener because the listener can't follow what they are talking about. Conveying information is not a one size fits all situation.

LSJ conveys accurate info. For some it's redundant and boaring because they knew this. For some it's educational because they had enough of an understanding to follow what he was talking about and learned a few things they did not know. For some it's noise they can not follow because they don't have enough background.

All in all he does a good job of presenting info.

Those who already knew this info have not put out the effort to teach those who did not know or forgot the info, like he did.

Also, some of his YT videos with Total Seal teach detailed info about piston-rings and clearances, bore finish and materials and a few other things. Again, it's about what level is, insulting, educational, or above the listeners head. It's never one size fits All.

He's certainly an entire level above Scotty click-bate.

I have learned a fue things from LSJ, and will continue to watch him.

----------------

BTW, this recent video got me thinking about what I put my Honda K24W in my CR-V through last week when I let it idle for a total of 20 hours spread out over 5 times of about 4 hours each, to make the high output alternator power my 2200 W 4400 W peak high reliabality very clean sine wave Meanwell brand 12 V DC to 120 AC inverter, during a 2.5 day power-outage. Certainly a bit more load on the engine than it normally sees at idle. Makes me glad I have PUP 0W - 20 in it, instead of a lesser 0W - 20.

My problem is that some of his statements omit necessary context which allows his audience to reach the incorrect conclusions.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Once again pushing an Engineering problem into the customers Lap.

 

[buster]

Oil analysis is just a low cost tool. Formula 1 uses it. Comparisons to known metallurgy and baseline/oil combo pre/post race can help teams identify potential problems. Large spikes in wear metals can indicate a potential problem.

It's much more complicated comparing oils for a few reasons - different operation conditions, weather conditions, cross contamination switching from brand to brand etc.

 

[Pablo]

Listen I don’t hate the guy

I clearly stated I don’t appreciate click bait titles for very serious subjects

Heck I watch PF videos with curtains drawn