Unveiling the Superiority of Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Oil: A Detailed Analysis by Mr. Lake Speed Jr.

[OVERKILL]

I thought you had no faith in VOA's

VOA's from different labs will show different additive levels, as we've discussed. These two Blackstone VOA's show similar levels of additives between these two oils, close enough that it doesn't matter.

You were claiming the additive levels were different, saying QS was "at the limit" of 800ppm phosphorous and that Pennzoil was much lower, but I'm not seeing that here. You also claimed that only Pennzoil used GTL bases, but the SDS sheets show that this isn't the case either, that QS also uses GTL.

 

[Sienna dude]

VOA's from different labs will show different additive levels, as we've discussed. These two Blackstone VOA's show similar levels of additives between these two oils, close enough that it doesn't matter.

You were claiming the additive levels were different, saying QS was "at the limit" of 800ppm phosphorous and that Pennzoil was much lower, but I'm not seeing that here. You also claimed that only Pennzoil used GTL bases, but the SDS sheets show that this isn't the case either, that QS also uses GTL.

What about pennzoilsl ultra's 20 years or 750,000 Mi warranty lol

 

[Sienna dude]

Speaking of VOA not being accurate, I can't believe the TBN is 12.1 on this thing,

ESP 0w20

 

[Hohn]

Were these tear-down tests or are we talking specific bench tests? According to Gokan in a thread on I believe the video you are referencing, when the SP M1 15W-50 first appeared, the bottle code showed it was not reformulated.

That one didn’t look as familiar as I’d hoped. I found a LSJr video talking about VR1 that sort of gets at what I remember, but dang if I cannot find the M1 to VR1 direct comparison. LSJr is sort of aggravating with how useless the titles of his videos are relative to the content. The video showing the 4 different M1 0w-40s is titled “the secret history of M1.” Yup, useless.

Anyway, I found this. He references the SP formulation of VR1 and having lower wear with lower detergency in this video:

 

[ltslimjim]

Why?

Without digging into specific specs, let me say this. The pinnacle of quality in engine oils typically comes down to oils formulated for long-drain intervals and oils formulated for professional race teams. You don't see GTL usage in either of these areas and for good reason. GTL is just group III with the downsides of group IV.

Could you please expound on the details for this statement? I’d like to learn more. Thanks, I was under the impression GTL had some advantages over group IV, but perhaps it’s just the cost savings in the end.

 

[OVERKILL]

That one didn’t look as familiar as I’d hoped. I found a LSJr video talking about VR1 that sort of gets at what I remember, but dang if I cannot find the M1 to VR1 direct comparison. LSJr is sort of aggravating with how useless the titles of his videos are relative to the content. The video showing the 4 different M1 0w-40s is titled “the secret history of M1.” Yup, useless.

Anyway, I found this. He references the SP formulation of VR1 and having lower wear with lower detergency in this video:

Lower detergency makes sense, but I'm going to assume it still has the same or very similar levels of AW additives as it did previously. It's not an extended drain oil, so it really doesn't need very high levels of detergents, so this is a smart move.

 

[OVERKILL]

Could you please expound on the details for this statement? I’d like to learn more. Thanks, I was under the impression GTL had some advantages over group IV, but perhaps it’s just the cost savings in the end.

GTL has less wax than your typical Group III, which gives it superior pour points and means it needs less PPD's (both good if you are trying to blend like a 0W-xx). But of course PAO has zero wax and doesn't require PPD's at all.

The slate of GTL base oils is pretty narrow still at this point, so there isn't the range of options like there are with Group III and the massive slate of PAO base oils that companies like Mobil offer.

While GTL doesn't have the seal shrink tendency of PAO, it's almost equally as "dry", meaning it has basically zero solvency, so it requires something else as a carrier to provide that.

I think GTL bases have some real strengths, as mentioned, but the limited grade slate is definitely a downside. There may be other detractors that I'm unaware of.

 

[Sienna dude]

GTL has less wax than your typical Group III, which gives it superior pour points and means it needs less PPD's (both good if you are trying to blend like a 0W-xx). But of course PAO has zero wax and doesn't require PPD's at all.

The slate of GTL base oils is pretty narrow still at this point, so there isn't the range of options like there are with Group III and the massive slate of PAO base oils that companies like Mobil offer.

While GTL doesn't have the seal shrink tendency of PAO, it's almost equally as "dry", meaning it has basically zero solvency, so it requires something else as a carrier to provide that.

I think GTL bases have some real strengths, as mentioned, but the limited grade slate is definitely a downside. There may be other detractors that I'm unaware of.

So GTL cannot be the base for a very thick oil like 5w50?

 

[4WD]

GTL has less wax than your typical Group III, which gives it superior pour points and means it needs less PPD's (both good if you are trying to blend like a 0W-xx). But of course PAO has zero wax and doesn't require PPD's at all.

The slate of GTL base oils is pretty narrow still at this point, so there isn't the range of options like there are with Group III and the massive slate of PAO base oils that companies like Mobil offer.

While GTL doesn't have the seal shrink tendency of PAO, it's almost equally as "dry", meaning it has basically zero solvency, so it requires something else as a carrier to provide that.

I think GTL bases have some real strengths, as mentioned, but the limited grade slate is definitely a downside. There may be other detractors that I'm unaware of.

Considering the majority of GTL is used for fuel - the stack up won’t stray too far to the right. Further to your point - mPAO can go far enough to the right to be used as an effective VM …

 

[OVERKILL]

So GTL cannot be the base for a very thick oil like 5w50?

Yep, it can, just uses lots of VII.

 

[JAG]

RDY4WAR, I think it is inaccurate to consider GTL to be Group III with the downsides of PAO. It certainly also approximately possesses many of PAO’s positives. In some ways it is superior and in other ways it is inferior. Do you not agree with that last statement?

This image is included because it is a handy comparison for others. It’s not meant to be proof of anything. Pour point is a property where GTL is clearly inferior to PAO.

 

[Sienna dude]

RDY4WAR, I think it is inaccurate to consider GTL to be Group III with the downsides of PAO. It certainly also approximately possesses many of PAO’s positives. In some ways it is superior and in other ways it is inferior. Do you not agree with that last statement?

This image is included because it is a handy comparison for others. It’s not meant to be proof of anything. Pour point is a property where GTL is clearly inferior to PAO.

View attachment 276339

I don't think we need PAO's amazing pour point in most of this country. Like -80 degrees. So where does GTL beat PAO?

 

[JAG]

So where does GTL beat PAO?

This is not an exhaustive list, but for same viscosity at 100C, some that come to mind are the VI can be higher, polarity can be higher, volatility can be lower, and cost can be lower. The properties vary across the different products of each base oil type and viscosity, and the base oil types are similar enough that one could probably find counter-examples of everything I said. That’s why I had to say “can be”. Some good articles exist online discussing PAO and GTL.

 

[Sienna dude]

This is not an exhaustive list, but for same viscosity at 100C, some that come to mind are the VI can be higher, polarity can be higher, volatility can be lower, and cost can be lower. The properties vary across the different products of each base oil type and viscosity, and the base oil types are similar enough that one could probably find counter-examples of everything I said. That’s why I had to say “can be”. Some good articles exist online discussing PAO and GTL.

Pennzoil's Ultra is 100% GTL. Can you give example of a 100% PAO?

 

[Patman]

Pennzoil's Ultra is 100% GTL. Can you give example of a 100% PAO?

There are no oils at all that use a 100% PAO base oil, they need to blend PAO with one of the other base oils

 

[Sienna dude]

There are no oils at all that use a 100% PAO base oil, they need to blend PAO with one of the other base oils

There are no oils at all that use a 100% PAO base oil, they need to blend PAO with one of the other base oils

My guess is that hpl, red line and amsoil probably have the highest percentage of PAO. And Mobil's Euro spec oils

 

[Patman]

My guess is that hpl, red line and amsoil probably have the highest percentage of PAO. And Mobil's Euro spec oils

They would all be blending PAO with esters or ANs, and possibly even some GTL.

 

[KCJeep]

Make mine GTL, shaken, not stirred.

 

[facility1]

My guess is that hpl, red line and amsoil probably have the highest percentage of PAO. And Mobil's Euro spec oils

Royal Purple HPS has it also and Torco also,there some other ones like Havoline has 0-10% ,Schaeffer's etc cant think of anyone with even a lot of PAO,,HPL probably has the most of it resulting in a really great oil.

 

[Sienna dude]

Royal Purple HPS has it also and Torco also,there some other ones like Havoline has 0-10% ,Schaeffer's etc cant think of anyone with even a lot of PAO,,HPL probably has the most of it resulting in a really great oil.

And great price lol.